Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Verdigris

Will this type of scheme reach a point whereby the electric grid eventually determines that all the time is peak time?  As we move to ASHP and more EV's, would the profile of electricity use not tend towards a flatter profile throughout the day - night cycle in any case?

The Holy Grail of electricity generation is for supply and demand to match, at a constant (seasonally speaking) level, 24/7. A pessimist would call that constant Peak, an optimist constant Off-peak, but a basically flat line would keep costs to a minimum, which should mean fair prices at the retail level.

I hope I live long enough to observe such a phenomenon.

CKhalvashi

Grumpy_chap said:

CKhalvashi said:

I personally may be a 'normal' driver in terms of my normal daily commute, but definitely not in terms of what we are using business vehicles for. The issue I'm hoping will be resolved is both in terms of 9 seaters with additional range and double cab-in vans, which Vauxhall have to their credit solved so far, but with huge waiting lists and a less than ideal (but perfectly manageable on paper for around 80% of our operations in 2019) range.

I'm not an expert but, as I understand it, UK BIK for a company EV car is very favourable but UK BIK for a company EV van is no different to an ICE van.  That makes the company EV van less attractive (or no more attractive) to a van-user than a company ICE van.

I am entirely happy if the BIK rules have changed and the above is incorrect.


I like the comments around the end of ICE towards latter-half 2020's.  Lots of speculation - let's see how reality progresses.

EVandPV said:

Received an email from Myenergi today looking for people with a Zappi EV charger to take part in a trial whereby they limit the charge rate during peak times with a couple of Amazon vouchers as an incentive.
Was quite happy to sign up given we usually charge from 00.30 to 4.30am anyway.

Will this type of scheme reach a point whereby the electric grid eventually determines that all the time is peak time?  As we move to ASHP and more EV's, would the profile of electricity use not tend towards a flatter profile throughout the day - night cycle in any case?

This isn't a BIK issue, but the current benefit rate is 0% of £3500.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-company-vans/work-out-the-value

Even though some are out overnight, they are not BIK-able in any event as there is no element of private use and the vehicles are not stored at or near homes of employees but normally in another city.

Grumpy_chap

CKhalvashi said:

This isn't a BIK issue, but the current benefit rate is 0% of £3500.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-company-vans/work-out-the-value

Thank you - far better than my (incorrect) understanding.  Though, as you say, BIK is not the factor in your case.

EVandPV

https://youtu.be/W3hVLG5iDec

Swan_Valley

Interesting link posted on the Octopus Forum about the different types of batteries used in EV's, including a comparison of the energy density for a range of cars.

pushevs dot com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020

The Tesla Model 3 LR & latest Zoe tie for highest energy density @ 168 Wh/kg

The e-golf being the lowest @ 103 Wh/kg

Be good to see what changes there are now for 2021.

Exiled_Tyke

Grumpy_chap said:

CKhalvashi said:

This isn't a BIK issue, but the current benefit rate is 0% of £3500.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-company-vans/work-out-the-value

Thank you - far better than my (incorrect) understanding.  Though, as you say, BIK is not the factor in your case.

To be clear there should never be a BIK on a vehicle which has no private use by employees. Vans only have business use and so there should be no BIK. Where a business (or more accurately their employee) is at risk of having a BIK assessed on their use of such a vehicle then employers will ensure that they stick to the rules to avoid any BIK. So this ends up being a non-issue. 

Martyn1981

I was reading an article on BEV locomotives, which is an interesting idea, and will hopefully expand, but it led me on to another article which might have greater short term potential.

The idea is for 'battery boxcars', which could be used to power the current fleet of diesel electric loco's. Basically, instead of running the diesel generator to power the electric drive system, the existing stock could be modified to run off a battery boxcar instead (or as well as, almost like a hybrid).

No idea if this is practical/viable/economic, but I liked the idea of being able to add a battery to existing diesel electrics, which might be a way of moving more of the generation away from diesel over time, without any massive or sudden change to the existing infrastructure? Well it's a thought.

The case for converting diesel trains to run on boxcar batteries

Since today's diesel locomotives typically run electric drive systems anyway, using the diesel engine as a generator, it's not difficult to convert them to DC battery power. You just need a big battery and the wiring to connect it to the drive system.

In the new study paper, the team proposes attaching dedicated battery boxcars behind the locomotive. Each boxcar, the team calculates, could pull as much as 14 MWh of energy storage in the form of long-cycle-life lithium ferrous phosphate batteries. You can run multiple locomotives, and/or multiple battery boxcars, to power a given train.

This study analyzes the energy use, practicalities and economics of a theoretical train operating in California, using four 3.3-megawatt locomotives pulling 100 boxcars and 6,806 tonnes of revenue-earning cargo, powered by a single battery boxcar.

It finds that this one large battery pack is enough to achieve a 241-km (150-mile) range, enough to meet the average distance between stops for US Class 1 freight trains. The weight of the battery car increases the train's energy use by about 5 percent, says the team, but the overall energy consumption of the train is about half what a typical diesel-electric train uses, thanks to the high efficiency of batteries and the ability to harvest some braking energy back into the system.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

I was reading an article on BEV locomotives, which is an interesting idea, and will hopefully expand, but it led me on to another article which might have greater short term potential.
The idea is for 'battery boxcars', which could be used to power the current fleet of diesel electric loco's. Basically, instead of running the diesel generator to power the electric drive system, the existing stock could be modified to run off a battery boxcar instead (or as well as, almost like a hybrid).

Closer to home, electrification of the network has stalled due to rising costs (and the lower utilisation of many of the provincial lines). Hybrid locos could be of some benefit there; a Paddington-to-Penzance train, for example, could run pantographs to Swindon then batteries to Penzance.

Here's a blog post on the topic (it was a quick Google, there may be better ones).

Grumpy_chap

Exiled_Tyke said:

To be clear there should never be a BIK on a vehicle which has no private use by employees. Vans only have business use and so there should be no BIK. Where a business (or more accurately their employee) is at risk of having a BIK assessed on their use of such a vehicle then employers will ensure that they stick to the rules to avoid any BIK. So this ends up being a non-issue. 

We are probably drifting off-topic, but I can't agree that the "vans only have business use" to apply as a universal criteria.  Just look at the high number of Ford Ranger / VW Amarok / Toyota Hilux and such - so often chosen because the user wants a big 4x4 type vehicle and to mitigate BIK liability.  Clearly, the attractiveness of those choices - often just used as cars in any case - is reduced now that EV can mitigate the BIK further.

Exiled_Tyke

Grumpy_chap said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

To be clear there should never be a BIK on a vehicle which has no private use by employees. Vans only have business use and so there should be no BIK. Where a business (or more accurately their employee) is at risk of having a BIK assessed on their use of such a vehicle then employers will ensure that they stick to the rules to avoid any BIK. So this ends up being a non-issue. 

We are probably drifting off-topic, but I can't agree that the "vans only have business use" to apply as a universal criteria.  Just look at the high number of Ford Ranger / VW Amarok / Toyota Hilux and such - so often chosen because the user wants a big 4x4 type vehicle and to mitigate BIK liability.  Clearly, the attractiveness of those choices - often just used as cars in any case - is reduced now that EV can mitigate the BIK further.

 So we agree. It ends up being a non-issue because vans are unlikely to be used privately and the examples you quote often come under the rules which allow for minimal BIKs anyway.   The original post suggested that  commercial BEVs don't get extended tax benefits over commercial ICE vehicles, but in the majority of cases there isn't a significant BIK to worry about so it's difficult to create a greater incentive for BEV use.   Clearly some incentive is needed to get businesses to move from ICE to BEV's but BIKs aren't the issue here.