Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Can't decide if this is BEV news or not. I suppose it might be as the impact of higher ICEV prices will, as we've discussed before, help to nudge the needle a bit further towards BEV's, and away from ICE's.

This could well be entirely irrelevant.

EURO 7 does not come in until 2025, by which time I doubt any manufacturer will be launching or investing in anything for ICE vehicles.

In fact, I am surprised that new model ranges are still being launched today that do not include EV versions.  The smart thing for a manufacturer to do would be only design new vehicles as EVs and only offer the ICE version if that can be fitted into the EV design.  

By 2025, we will be reaching the point that the only ICE vehicles for main-stream are run-out technologies as the manufacturers squeeze every last drop of value from the technology.

Yeah, and this could form part of the argument/reasoning that BEV's will be on price parity with ICEV's by 2024/25, though that does still seem like a tough challenge to me. But if it does happen, then it's hard to believe that many folk will still want a new ICEV, or a PHEV (assuming they still cost more than the ICEV). Looks like a gathering storm culminating around mid decade, especially with the Chinese expansion, one of them, BYD I think, is currently recruiting sales staff/after sales managers in the US, and of course MG is doing really well in Europe and Australia.

You say about investing in anything for ICEV's by 2025, which makes a lot of sense, and I think some manufacturers have already ended development, or set dates to end development, but do the Euro rules only apply to new vehicles seeking certification, or will they also apply to existing vehicle sales as they move into the relevant sales period? ....... ah, I think I get it, bit slow there, so the mainstream vehicles will be worth upgrading to Euro7 as they are still selling well enough at the time?

Martyn1981

Here's a link to Mercedes and their eCitaro BEV bus just for background, but this vid from Bjorn Nyland has a look around one with, importantly, solid state batteries:

Mercedes eCitaro with solid state battery test ride

Martyn1981

Not important, just a silly story that may amuse some.

I drove up to Ebbw Vale today to get some cat litter. Technically, almost everywhere in S. Wales is 'up' from Cardiff, so the car showed 350Wh/mile after the 30 mile trip up. Then coming home, with gravity now my friend, and the car weighing a bit more, I got 168Wh/mile.

As I said, silly, but it amused me.

orrery

Martyn1981 said:
I drove up to Ebbw Vale today to get some cat litter. Technically, almost everywhere in S. Wales is 'up' from Cardiff, so the car showed 350Wh/mile after the 30 mile trip up. Then coming home, with gravity now my friend, and the car weighing a bit more, I got 168Wh/mile.

Not silly. A very important point. I visit my Mum in the Peak District every few weeks, dragging up steep hills and then trying to go down the next one using regen braking only. At the end of the day, the miles/kWh figure isn't materially different to driving near my home in Bedfordshire - where there are very few hills.

Superscrooge

orrery said:

Martyn1981 said:
I drove up to Ebbw Vale today to get some cat litter. Technically, almost everywhere in S. Wales is 'up' from Cardiff, so the car showed 350Wh/mile after the 30 mile trip up. Then coming home, with gravity now my friend, and the car weighing a bit more, I got 168Wh/mile.

Not silly. A very important point. I visit my Mum in the Peak District every few weeks, dragging up steep hills and then trying to go down the next one using regen braking only. At the end of the day, the miles/kWh figure isn't materially different to driving near my home in Bedfordshire - where there are very few hills.

Same experience for me. Hilly terrain doesn't appear to have much effect on range/efficiency.

The two factors I find have the biggest effect at reducing range are cold weather and motorway driving.  

Martyn1981

Well, just for fun then, here are some more numbers before they fade from memory - I'm a big kid, so I enjoy this stuff.

So, I left the unit in the large industrial estate in Ebbw Vale, which is on the side of a hill. So the first 100m(ish) out of the unit, and side road is uphill, slow, under acceleration, and a heavy car, so as I turn onto the main drag through the estate, and now running flat across the hill, I glance at the energy, and was shocked not so much to see it at four figures, but because it was starting with a '3' !!!!!!

After, another half mile (I'm going to switch to imperial) I reached the 'corner' of the estate, and the average had now dropped to about 800Wh/mile, and then began my slow decline (insert pun here), through some short lengths of roads and roundabouts under regen, and the average rapidly dropped to about 50Wh/mile.

The trip home could probably be described as split into 3x10miles, the first steeper part with the energy sitting at around 50-70Wh/mile, then the second stretch being downhill, but not significant, lifting the figure to around 105-115Wh/mile, and then the final 'flat' run home, and motorway/dual carriageway speeds lifting it to the 168Wh/mile mark.

All explainable, and just posted for 'giggles', but I do enjoy this stuff.

In future I plan to begin all my journeys at height, with 'added' weight. 

silverwhistle

If you look at the map of the Aosta Valley and find Cervinia on the Italian side of the Matterhorn (Cervino) you'll see a place with a number of chargers, quite a few in hotels. But as the place is at over 2000m where you really want more chargers is in the main valley at Chatillon. I won't be going there any time soon in an EV but would want a full charge before the climb from around 500m. The regen on _that_ downhill would be interesting! So strategically you'd want to place more chargers in the valleys than in the resorts.. :-)

Verdigris

Just as well electricity is weightless, so flows up and downhill equally easily!

michaels

In theory you can do the maths, gravitational potential energy (in joules) = mass x height x g (9.8)
And 1kwh = 3.6MJ

I calculated that the reason our leaf takes more battery percent on the way home on most of our trips is that we are at just over 100m and a lot of out trips end up close to the Thames at basically 0 -10m so we gain a bit over 2% of our little battery on the way there and lose the same amount on the way back so say 45% there and 50% (and a squeaky bum) on the way back despite starting the return trip with a safe looking 55%

EVandPV

Ford announces $11.4bn investment in electric vehicle plants

Ford has announced a major investment in electric vehicle (EV) production in the US, promising to build its biggest ever factory in Tennessee, and two battery parks in Kentucky.

Under the $11.4bn (£8.3bn) plan, the carmaker said it will build zero-emission cars and pickups "at scale" for American customers.

It will also create 11,000 jobs.

Like rivals GM and Stellantis, Ford hopes around half of the cars it sells by 2030 will be zero emission.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58714608.amp