Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

I am always puzzled by CleanTechnica’s faux concern for Toyota with their slow transition to EVs. Why would it concern them if Toyota went bust? Don’t CT think it would be good thing for the planet if there were 10m less Toyota ICEVs on the road?

Toyota are in business to make money within the prevailing business environment and regulatory structure. It is up to other organisations to dictate policy. As I have said before, if governments want to ban ICEs they have the power to do so but they don’t so why shouldn’t car makers produce the cars they make money on? More than 90 percent of global car sales are still ICE. 

We tend to look at this from a developed world perspective but there are large parts of the world where the EV infrastructure will take a long time to develop. The reality (investment) doesn’t quite match the clean green rhetoric.  While other manufacturers are throwing in the towel on these markets, promising to be all electric by 2030 or earlier there is still a market out there that is actually growing, that needs satisfying. 

In Toyota’s homeland the transition to EVs is progressing slowly. There is not the pressure there to be seen to be green. Even in the US sales of ICE vehicles are expected to continue growing.

2030: 20 Million More ICE Vehicles Will Be on the Roads in the US Than in 2021

https://evadoption.com/2030-20-million-more-ice-vehicles-will-be-on-the-roads-in-the-us-than-in-2021/

These are important and profitable markets for Toyota that other manufacturers are walking away from. For all the hype about Tesla one tends to forget that they don’t actually make that much money and neither do Ford or GM and they will probably make even less when EVs are their core activity. 

Toyota are the most profitable motor company in the world and their attitude appears to be to continue accumulating profits where they are available which can be ploughed into research and development. Is that not a better business model than say Tesla?

Toyota know quite a lot about electrified vehicles (they make the best selling plug in hybrid in the world) and are developing new electric cars. They are also exploring solid state battery development while at the same time building HFC vehicles. That may be a dead end but if it isn’t then they will be way ahead of the field. They will transition but gradually at their pace and with their experience and manufacturing ability it won’t be difficult.

What is the rush (from a financial point of view)? It is still more than 8 years to 2030 and Toyota still look like they will be making money from ICEVs for some time to come. From an environmental point of view it isn’t a huge disaster either. Given the upfront CO2 penalty in manufacturing EVs and current dirty grids in much of the world, Toyota’s (self charging😀) hybrids have quite a lot to offer. (Toyota’s Yaris has emissions of 92gCO2/km. The US grid is around 400g/kWh on average but in the Mid West much higher.)

Martyn1981

And just to show how widespread the concerns about Toyota are, with their worldwide political attempts to slow down the transition away from FF vehicles to cleaner, greener and more sustainable transport, and thereby worsen AGW, here are some more articles:

Toyota Whiffed on EVs. Now It’s Trying to Slow Their Rise

In a bid to protect its investments in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells, the carmaker is lobbying against the transition to electric vehicles.

Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles

The US is slowing moving toward adopting policies that would put more electric vehicles on the road, but for Toyota, it’s not slow enough. The Japanese automaker, which is the largest car company in the world, has been quietly lobbying policymakers in Washington, DC to resist the urge to transition to an all-electric future — partly because Toyota is lagging behind the rest of industry in making that transition itself.

Hybrid Pioneer Toyota Pushes Congress To Slow Down Transition To Electric Cars

In contrast to the vast majority of carmakers who have already launched EVs, like General Motors, Ford, Tesla, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Jaguar, Mini, Fiat, Mazda, Nissan, Honda and Kia, Toyota still does not have an EV in its lineup and is opposing stricter emissions limits and electric vehicle initiatives around the world, according to a report in the New York Times.

Why Is Electrification Pioneer Toyota Stalling With EVs?

As followers of the EV media know, battery-bashing has been Toyota’s public policy for several years now. However, many may not be aware that the company is also waging a behind-the-scenes political push around the world to slow down the transition to EVs.

Toyota Bet Against Electric Cars. Now It's Stacking the Deck Against Them

While Toyota has seen success far and wide as an early pioneer of hybrid cars, it's had much less luck with another technology it has invested heavily in: hydrogen-powered fuel cell EVs. While the rest of the electric car market is going heavily battery-powered, Toyota is still banking on hydrogen power in many ways—even as competitors like Honda and BMW have seemingly dialed down their hydrogen ambitions. Now we know that Toyota's conservative battery EV strategy and its big bet on hydrogen are closely related issues. 

JKenH

Isn’t that just the same regurgitation of the New York Times story repeated 5 times?

orrery

JKenH said:

What is the rush (from a financial point of view)? It is still more than 8 years to 2030 and Toyota still look like they will be making money from ICEVs for some time to come. From an environmental point of view it isn’t a huge disaster either.

I think it's an arrogance - a feeling that they can just turn on EVs, because they are Toyota. VW had the same attitude after introducing a couple of PHEVs and an EV version of the Golf - compliance cars at best.

When it came to making real EVs, it stumbled badly with braking issues on the ID3, which saw deliveries delayed, airfields stacked with them and garages having to update software before they could be sold, because the over-the-air update didn't work either.

Toyota are losing market share - I know one guy who has been Toyota's greatest fan, has just bought a Kona. He may be hard to get back as a customer.

This is all about saving face when you've bet the farm on hydrogen.

JKenH

orrery said:

JKenH said:

What is the rush (from a financial point of view)? It is still more than 8 years to 2030 and Toyota still look like they will be making money from ICEVs for some time to come. From an environmental point of view it isn’t a huge disaster either.

Toyota are losing market share - I know one guy who has been Toyota's greatest fan, has just bought a Kona. He may be hard to get back as a customer.

Not sure that is true, at least in Europe and the US.

Toyota Motor outsold General Motors in the U.S. for the first time ever during a quarter and is expected to be America’s bestselling automaker.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/toyota-tops-gm-sales-expected-to-be-americas-best-selling-automaker.html

Toyota’s first half-year sales growth maintains record market 6.6% share

• Toyota Motor Europe (TME) continued its fast start in 2021 with 598,888 vehicles sold in the first 6 months, maintaining a record market share of 6.6%, an increase +0.5 pts year-on-year
• TME’s strongest first half-year sales since 2007, reflecting high customer demand for the Toyota and Lexus hybrid line-up
• Year to date, Toyota remains 2nd best-selling car brand in Europe
• Lexus continues to show increased volume and share growth
• 
  

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyotas-first-half-year-sales-growth-maintains-record-market-66-share/

QrizB

Unless it's a glitch, Octopus have just bumped up the daytime rate on Octopus Go.

See this post on the Energy forum:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78623059/#Comment_78623059

On one had it isn't a surprise, on the other it's a pain as I'm mid-switch to Octopus (joining in 6 days) and was hoping to go on Go! Flexible is up against the Ofgem cap at 20p/kWh ...

EVandPV

QrizB said:

Unless it's a glitch, Octopus have just bumped up the daytime rate on Octopus Go.

See this post on the Energy forum:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78623059/#Comment_78623059

On one had it isn't a surprise, on the other it's a pain as I'm mid-switch to Octopus (joining in 6 days) and was hoping to go on Go! Flexible is up against the Ofgem cap at 20p/kWh ...

Still on 14.19p per kwh here, for now at least.
Is that just for people switching to Go ?

QrizB

EVandPV said:

QrizB said:

Unless it's a glitch, Octopus have just bumped up the daytime rate on Octopus Go.

See this post on the Energy forum:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78623059/#Comment_78623059

On one had it isn't a surprise, on the other it's a pain as I'm mid-switch to Octopus (joining in 6 days) and was hoping to go on Go! Flexible is up against the Ofgem cap at 20p/kWh ...

Still on 14.19p per kwh here, for now at least.
Is that just for people switching to Go ?

I think so, yes. It might also be what existing customers are put on when their 12m fix expires (Go was sold as a 12m fix, I think?).

Your Go is "Go June 2018" but the new one is "Go Sept 2021 v1" (not my screen cap, sorry for small size of text).

EVandPV

I had an email from them on the 12th ....

"We thought you should know that on 14th September 2021, you'll reach the end of your fixed term, and automatically moved to Octopus Go: our always great value variable tariff."

But no mention of a change to the day rate ??
Assumed it was just a standard email that goes out to roll you over for another 12 months.

QrizB

If you rolled over on the 14th, you're probably OK. The rate has only changed in the past day or two.