Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

So I went for the middle of the range 300 mile. We previously had a fiat multipla (i know}  and got on really well with the 3+3 seating and no issues with the widtb. Our current second f car after the lead is a volvo xc90. Not sure how this compares size wise, on holiday this year we had a lwb vw transporter 9 seater and it is obviously not as simple as the leaf but i never had any issues in even in the Devon lanes with no reversing camera. 

orrery

michaels said:

1) How do the new EV fleets and the new ice fleets compare in vehicle size?  95g average I believe includes EVs and lots of small cars whereas EVs I think are probably larger than average as there are fewer small EVs available - ie we need to look at the efficiency of the ice alternative to the EVs actually sold not the average emissions efficiency which also includes EVs!

Not a long term issue. There are two things at play here:

1. Batteries are under the floor, tending to lift the height and brand the vehicle 'SUV' whether it is or not.

2. Batteries, and therefore EVs, are both big and expensive at this point on the development curve.

Manufacturers know that they have to sell expensive cars to people who can afford them, so it makes sense to make them larger 'up-market' models that can take the extra cost where they can recover the billions they've spent of development.

It will all come back into kilter with time.

ABrass

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

And lastly, and I'll caveat this bit with 'speculation' and 'rumour', it may not be as heavy as it looks - Obviously it'll be heavy, but the Ford and Rivian pick ups look to be tipping the scales in the US at around 6,000-7,000lbs+ empty. But the CT claims that it will have the ability to carry 3,500lbs in the bed, which to meet US regs and classifications, would have to have a loaded weight of 8,500lbs or less. That could mean the CT weighs in at around 5,000lbs, or 2,270kgs, which is no lightweight, but not the end of the world either, so to speak.

A regular ICE Ford Ranger is a touch over 2000kg kerb weight (see page 31 of the brochure):
https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/guxeu/uk/documents/brochures/commercial-vehicles/BRO-New_Ranger.pdf
The TM3 weighs about the same as a Mondeo, so a Cybertruck might not be much heavier than a Ranger.

Do you think that the CT could weigh 'that little' or Tesla are fibbing? The max payload for the Ford and Rivian BEV's are 2,000lb & 1,700lb respectively, with the smaller batt (lower vehicle weight) options, but 3,500lb for the Tesla.

I had assumed that the top range 500 mile CT would have a 200kWh battery, weigh around 3tonnes and average 2.5miles/kWh, but now I'm wondering if the aerodynamics (and lower weight) allow for a smaller battery?

But ~2.3tonnes, if that's a big battery model, just seems too good, even for Tesla ...... but as I said before, reality always seems to trump even my optimistic guesses!

Oh, and just to say, I really didn't think the CT would be suitable for the UK, but now I'm starting to think Michaels could be on to a real winner ...... not that I'm jelly ..... of course ....  ;-)

The new battery format is aiming for 380wh/Kg. So assuming a 200kWh battery it'll weigh around 500kg. They're aiming for the structural pack by then too.

michaels

ABrass said:

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

And lastly, and I'll caveat this bit with 'speculation' and 'rumour', it may not be as heavy as it looks - Obviously it'll be heavy, but the Ford and Rivian pick ups look to be tipping the scales in the US at around 6,000-7,000lbs+ empty. But the CT claims that it will have the ability to carry 3,500lbs in the bed, which to meet US regs and classifications, would have to have a loaded weight of 8,500lbs or less. That could mean the CT weighs in at around 5,000lbs, or 2,270kgs, which is no lightweight, but not the end of the world either, so to speak.

A regular ICE Ford Ranger is a touch over 2000kg kerb weight (see page 31 of the brochure):
https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/guxeu/uk/documents/brochures/commercial-vehicles/BRO-New_Ranger.pdf
The TM3 weighs about the same as a Mondeo, so a Cybertruck might not be much heavier than a Ranger.

Do you think that the CT could weigh 'that little' or Tesla are fibbing? The max payload for the Ford and Rivian BEV's are 2,000lb & 1,700lb respectively, with the smaller batt (lower vehicle weight) options, but 3,500lb for the Tesla.

I had assumed that the top range 500 mile CT would have a 200kWh battery, weigh around 3tonnes and average 2.5miles/kWh, but now I'm wondering if the aerodynamics (and lower weight) allow for a smaller battery?

But ~2.3tonnes, if that's a big battery model, just seems too good, even for Tesla ...... but as I said before, reality always seems to trump even my optimistic guesses!

Oh, and just to say, I really didn't think the CT would be suitable for the UK, but now I'm starting to think Michaels could be on to a real winner ...... not that I'm jelly ..... of course ....  ;-)

The new battery format is aiming for 380wh/Kg. So assuming a 200kWh battery it'll weigh around 500kg. They're aiming for the structural pack by then too.

Also could an exoskeleton be lighter than a traditional truck body on frame design?

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

And lastly, and I'll caveat this bit with 'speculation' and 'rumour', it may not be as heavy as it looks - Obviously it'll be heavy, but the Ford and Rivian pick ups look to be tipping the scales in the US at around 6,000-7,000lbs+ empty. But the CT claims that it will have the ability to carry 3,500lbs in the bed, which to meet US regs and classifications, would have to have a loaded weight of 8,500lbs or less. That could mean the CT weighs in at around 5,000lbs, or 2,270kgs, which is no lightweight, but not the end of the world either, so to speak.

A regular ICE Ford Ranger is a touch over 2000kg kerb weight (see page 31 of the brochure):
https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/guxeu/uk/documents/brochures/commercial-vehicles/BRO-New_Ranger.pdf
The TM3 weighs about the same as a Mondeo, so a Cybertruck might not be much heavier than a Ranger.

Do you think that the CT could weigh 'that little' or Tesla are fibbing? The max payload for the Ford and Rivian BEV's are 2,000lb & 1,700lb respectively, with the smaller batt (lower vehicle weight) options, but 3,500lb for the Tesla.

I had assumed that the top range 500 mile CT would have a 200kWh battery, weigh around 3tonnes and average 2.5miles/kWh, but now I'm wondering if the aerodynamics (and lower weight) allow for a smaller battery?

But ~2.3tonnes, if that's a big battery model, just seems too good, even for Tesla ...... but as I said before, reality always seems to trump even my optimistic guesses!

Oh, and just to say, I really didn't think the CT would be suitable for the UK, but now I'm starting to think Michaels could be on to a real winner ...... not that I'm jelly ..... of course ....  ;-)

With these ground-breaking Tesla vehicles, I always assumed that the vehicle specs were put out to public domain ahead of the vehicle actually being viable / designed. 

So, for the CT, Elon announces that it will be so big with such-and-such payload, and kerb weight around this much and have a range of that far and be priced to compete with a thingy and go so fast.

That creates the public desire.

In the mean-time, Elon tells his Engineers to design the product that meets the criteria for it to be viable and does not accept "impossible" as an answer.

I always thought that was why the available dates always slipped in the way they do - if the Engineering team have not got a product that passes the Elon test, it does not get out there for real.

Solarchaser

Heedtheadvice said:

@Solarchaser

As for convenience one of our regions busiest and important roads runs from carlisle accross to the ferry at Cairnryan near Stranraer. Try and find an actual free charger on the route and you will be very lucky. (At least not ones in convenient locations like the ones where you could sit in a hospital car park for several hours on a 3.5kW charger) Ok for some with high range EVs but certainly not free filling for those with lower performing cars and then in winter you could well be caught out unless you can drive a 20 mile detour.

You obviously have lots of very good experience and I cannot discount that but if you had a car with a published 150 mile range I would challenge you to drive in the depths of a freezing winters night from Dumfries to Stranraer and back using "free" CPS chargers! On paper, well screen, it looks fine but not in reality.

@Heedtheadvice just thought I'd mention, came off the ferry tonight having not expected to come home until tomorrow,  and so destination charge in an NI hotel, left myself rather short on charge, and heading north tomorrow. 
I looked at the chargers in Stranraer and as you had said they are all £1+ minimum charge as well as 25p or more per kwh, so I feel for you.
Though I was tempted to try the tesco as the carpark is called breastworks car park 😳 

Thankfully about 12m up the road was Ballantrae and the charger there is on my route and also free, giving out a fairly average 37kw, it's also right on the seafront so I could watch the waves come in before it got dark.

But what a stark difference, from a free 50kwh charge to a £12.50 charge only a few miles away.

silverwhistle

I haven't been on here for a bit so just had to scan the posts. I can't drive at the moment because of doctor's orders - it doesn't appear to be what was suspected after loads of scans and probably not my heart as I played 90 minutes of football in the heat on Sunday (!) - so I've got a pretty low mileage EV sitting doing nothing at the moment.

But the relevant observations picking up on  a couple of comments: I couldn't find a reasonable SH car a year ago as the market is immature so bought a bigger than needed new MG ZS EV. Secondly, there is  a demand for EVs and a number of MG ZS EV owners on one of the owners' forums have sold their newish cars as they have been offered so much by one of the online sellers.

And following some of the last few posts - I had hoped to visit Scotland this autumn but events have intervened. Plus the SWARCO take-over means the whole charging situation is a bit of a shambles at the moment. There's always next year..

Edit: one last point. I've been getting some mileage over the last few days from my fully ammortised PV just to top up for when I can drive again. A full battery with no carbon impact is pretty good I think. :-)

JKenH

Wondered where you’d been. I hope everything turns out ok for you.

Ken

Heedtheadvice

@Solarchaser

Well I suppose having to pay for the odd charge is not too bad (compared to having to pay for fuel all the time!). Good you were heading North and not too far to Ayrshire and Ballantrae.

Heading East there would be no free chargers, except by going off road to holiday parks and the like on a 20 mile detour, till Dumfries Hospital that has several slow chargers. All the rest? open your wallet.

Not that I am against paying a reasonable charge, one that encourages EV use. Standardisation is part of that easy convenience that fosters acceptance and encourages take up.

Hope you had a successful trip.

Martyn1981

Mr Toyoda isn't backing down. He's sticking with the argument that hybrids are the bridge technology to the future, and still pushing back against BEV's. I'd have thought HEV's and PHEV's have bridged the gap, and did that in the 2000's and 2010's, and now we've reached the other side, and need to get off the bridge and move to BEV's.

Nothing wrong with HEV's and PHEV's v's ICEV's, but come on Toyota, if there is one company out of the long list of legacy automakers that I'd bet money on could build great BEV's it's Toyota, so please join the transition, and stop trying to slow it down.

[Had to include the paragraph about Bill Waterson, since our first rescue cats were called Calvin and Hobbes, and then Susie and Moe came along, but we then ran out of characters, drawing the line at 'Mom' & 'Dad'.]

Akio Toyoda Would Rather Die Than Adapt

Akio Toyoda, grandson of the founder of Toyota, has gone into full frontal assault mode on proposals by the Japanese government to slash carbon emissions from the transportation sector by transitioning to electric vehicles. In addition to being the CEO of Toyota, he is also the chairman of the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), which means he has a lot of clout in his home country. (He also has a significant impact on policies in the US and other countries.)

Effective leaders recognize change and embrace it. Failed leaders are always looking to the past and are likely to get run over by change. Bill Watterson is the brilliant cartoonist who created Calvin and Hobbes. On November 21, 1990, he penned a cartoon in which Calvin says , “Live for the moment is my motto. You never know how long you’ve got. You could step into the road tomorrow and — WHAM! — you get hit by a cement truck. Then you’d be sorry you put off your pleasures. That’s why I say live for the moment.” Then he asks Hobbbes, “What’s your motto?” To which Hobbes replies, “Look down the road.” Someone should share that bit of wisdom with Toyoda-san.