Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Solarchaser

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

Solarchaser said:

I like the idea that more mainstream car manufacturers will sort out the EV niggles, especially as I think we are really coming to the end of the EV being "early adopters" only.

However a couple of weeks ago I seen a citreon Picasso on fire in the hard shoulder.... thats not that unusual a site, and usually nothing to do with the ice part of the car.

So I guess we will see.

Why do you see so many tesla complaints, probably for a few reasons, tesla has alot more fanboys than other brands, it also has alot more tech nerds than other brands.
And really you expect a £50k car to just work!

It has been said that Tesla doesn’t need to advertise because of all the Tesla fans spreading the word and that policy seems to be working as I read that the next couple of quarters are sold out already. That is the power of living on the internet but it can have its downside. 

Tesla has also closed its PR department and relies on Elon Musk to smooth any problems over with a dismissive tweet every now and then. The fanboys love that but it can alienate anyone who feels they have a genuine problem and so they go on forums to moan. They then get called trolls and shills by the fanboys and the battles rage on. 

I am not aware of any other brand that divides opinion as much as Tesla and perhaps that is down to the polarised nature of discussion about Tesla. That’s what was refreshing about the warts and all review of your Tesla experience. 

I wouldn't have a Tesla for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

Trying to do things a little differently in business is one thing (we do that, it works relatively well), but I don't like the way the company operates in relation to many areas.

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

So you wouldn't have a car because you don't like the brand.

I mean I kinda get it, id never buy a Ford because they are junk, worked on far too many of them... no I suppose that's based on actual experience. 

Hmm, so yeah you don't like the brand so you won't buy, fair enough, I guess that's why adverts are so successful,  convincing people to buy something they know nothing about.

I think Elon is weird, and the fan boys weirder still, but that takes nothing away from the car.

The car is awesome, that's it really, start, middle and end, it Pi$$es over any other car I've driven or owned.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.
And you tend to find that cars which were designed as an ev are a far better EV.

Anyway I best get back to manning my Neon sign pointing to my Tesla... its all show after all 🙄

QrizB

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.

I see a few Tesla Model 3s on the road these days and to my mind they're pretty bland looking, a little like a Mondeo or an Insignia. Certainly nothing flashy about them. I remember needing to check the badge to make sure they were a Tesla not some odd grey-market import.

The current model Honda Civic looks much more radical and comic-book.

(Having said that, the one time I saw a Model X with the rear doors open I did a double-take.)

Grumpy_chap

Solarchaser said:

So you wouldn't have a car because you don't like the brand.

Exactly why I would never buy a BMW - because of the brand and associated image

Solarchaser said:

I mean I kinda get it, id never buy a Ford because they are junk, 

We disagree entirely - Fords are the best and have a perfect image - you get a good car with good equipment without looking in any way "showy" or "budget".

I would buy a Tesla, even though the brand and image and build quality are all a bit "off".  I'd prefer a normal car that happens to be electric, but no-one else has got that good enough yet, so the Tesla remains the best electric car, and best most normal looking if you go for the TM3.  I particularly do not understand why the other manufacturers insist on making EV's just look weird - though MG have got the correct image and the Audi's are starting to get there.

Solarchaser

QrizB said:

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.

I see a few Tesla Model 3s on the road these days and to my mind they're pretty bland looking, a little like a Mondeo or an Insignia. Certainly nothing flashy about them. I remember needing to check the badge to make sure they were a Tesla not some odd grey-market import.

The current model Honda Civic looks much more radical and comic-book.

(Having said that, the one time I saw a Model X with the rear doors open I did a double-take.)

Indeed I'd agree, the X is pretty showy, but imo that's the only one.
I dont see the s or the 3, or the Y as showy.

I think the 3 looks a bit like a mazda 3 at the front and An older civic at the back.

It's like a vw polo vs a bugatti vayron, same company makes both, one is showy and one is not.

Grumpy, id never buy a BMW because they are over rated as a drivers car, I've driven quite a few and find them completely uninspiring.  I care nothing about the "brand".
We will clearly not agree on Ford, I worked on far too many of them, and driven far too many of them to ever see them as good in any way, the more modern ones are bland and disconnected to drive, and thats about as complimentary as I could get.

I tell a lie, I like the wafting cool air through the drivers seat on the mondano, it's a nice touch, and one I wish the tesla had as the back of the seat gets warm on long journeys 

CKhalvashi

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

Solarchaser said:

I like the idea that more mainstream car manufacturers will sort out the EV niggles, especially as I think we are really coming to the end of the EV being "early adopters" only.

However a couple of weeks ago I seen a citreon Picasso on fire in the hard shoulder.... thats not that unusual a site, and usually nothing to do with the ice part of the car.

So I guess we will see.

Why do you see so many tesla complaints, probably for a few reasons, tesla has alot more fanboys than other brands, it also has alot more tech nerds than other brands.
And really you expect a £50k car to just work!

It has been said that Tesla doesn’t need to advertise because of all the Tesla fans spreading the word and that policy seems to be working as I read that the next couple of quarters are sold out already. That is the power of living on the internet but it can have its downside. 

Tesla has also closed its PR department and relies on Elon Musk to smooth any problems over with a dismissive tweet every now and then. The fanboys love that but it can alienate anyone who feels they have a genuine problem and so they go on forums to moan. They then get called trolls and shills by the fanboys and the battles rage on. 

I am not aware of any other brand that divides opinion as much as Tesla and perhaps that is down to the polarised nature of discussion about Tesla. That’s what was refreshing about the warts and all review of your Tesla experience. 

I wouldn't have a Tesla for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

Trying to do things a little differently in business is one thing (we do that, it works relatively well), but I don't like the way the company operates in relation to many areas.

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

So you wouldn't have a car because you don't like the brand.

I mean I kinda get it, id never buy a Ford because they are junk, worked on far too many of them... no I suppose that's based on actual experience. 

Hmm, so yeah you don't like the brand so you won't buy, fair enough, I guess that's why adverts are so successful,  convincing people to buy something they know nothing about.

I think Elon is weird, and the fan boys weirder still, but that takes nothing away from the car.

The car is awesome, that's it really, start, middle and end, it Pi$$es over any other car I've driven or owned.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.
And you tend to find that cars which were designed as an ev are a far better EV.

Anyway I best get back to manning my Neon sign pointing to my Tesla... its all show after all 🙄

I think that didn't come across exactly as it was meant. I wouldn't buy one at this time predominantly due to how they operate as a company. They probably have more data than other manufacturers, but there have been known defects with them as the car is in effect still in testing. It could be said that this is the same situation for many cars in their first year of production, however most brands don't have those who will deny the problems when asking on forums to the extent of bordering on abuse.

I personally also take issue with the way that a manufacturer can access a car remotely. Data collection is one thing, but attempting to effectively license a vehicle to the owner is another completely.

Experience with Ford is completely different to yours. 208k miles in about 4 years on one (which admittedly did have problems early on that were put right), 106k in just over 18 months on another (the increase caused by a major contract being in Amsterdam rather than on the other side of Europe, making it drivable rather than flyable). There were no issues with the 2nd at all.

I'd never have had a Hyundai/Kia 20-ish years ago, their image and product line has changed considerably in this time, so there is room for change. Those who did shaped the car lineup into what it is today, even if the buyer profile is somewhat different.

Martyn1981

QrizB said:

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.

I see a few Tesla Model 3s on the road these days and to my mind they're pretty bland looking, a little like a Mondeo or an Insignia. Certainly nothing flashy about them. I remember needing to check the badge to make sure they were a Tesla not some odd grey-market import.

The current model Honda Civic looks much more radical and comic-book.

(Having said that, the one time I saw a Model X with the rear doors open I did a double-take.)

Here's a funny thing. I was just putting out the rubbish, and stood and looked at the cars for a bit, and it struck me how very similar the TM3 and Hyundai Ioniq are. They are both fastback designs, and have the same teardrop curve, though the TM3 does start from a lower nose, probably due to the the compact nature of the mechanicals. Also the Ioniq has a small kick up at the rear where the spoiler is, otherwise the tail would match the TM3. But general shape and dimensions, are really similar.

I still like the name Frg for the TM3, just look at one head on, crouch a bit, and it does have a somewhat squashed frog look to it ....... don't do this if the TM3 is mobile ;-)

My BiL summed it up well recently, he said 'I like the white car [the Ioniq], but I covet the Tesla'.

JKenH

This all shows just how subjective car buying can be so there is hope for every car maker and no one brand will dominate EVs.

Solarchaser

CKhalvashi said:

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

Solarchaser said:

I like the idea that more mainstream car manufacturers will sort out the EV niggles, especially as I think we are really coming to the end of the EV being "early adopters" only.

However a couple of weeks ago I seen a citreon Picasso on fire in the hard shoulder.... thats not that unusual a site, and usually nothing to do with the ice part of the car.

So I guess we will see.

Why do you see so many tesla complaints, probably for a few reasons, tesla has alot more fanboys than other brands, it also has alot more tech nerds than other brands.
And really you expect a £50k car to just work!

It has been said that Tesla doesn’t need to advertise because of all the Tesla fans spreading the word and that policy seems to be working as I read that the next couple of quarters are sold out already. That is the power of living on the internet but it can have its downside. 

Tesla has also closed its PR department and relies on Elon Musk to smooth any problems over with a dismissive tweet every now and then. The fanboys love that but it can alienate anyone who feels they have a genuine problem and so they go on forums to moan. They then get called trolls and shills by the fanboys and the battles rage on. 

I am not aware of any other brand that divides opinion as much as Tesla and perhaps that is down to the polarised nature of discussion about Tesla. That’s what was refreshing about the warts and all review of your Tesla experience. 

I wouldn't have a Tesla for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

Trying to do things a little differently in business is one thing (we do that, it works relatively well), but I don't like the way the company operates in relation to many areas.

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

So you wouldn't have a car because you don't like the brand.

I mean I kinda get it, id never buy a Ford because they are junk, worked on far too many of them... no I suppose that's based on actual experience. 

Hmm, so yeah you don't like the brand so you won't buy, fair enough, I guess that's why adverts are so successful,  convincing people to buy something they know nothing about.

I think Elon is weird, and the fan boys weirder still, but that takes nothing away from the car.

The car is awesome, that's it really, start, middle and end, it Pi$$es over any other car I've driven or owned.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.
And you tend to find that cars which were designed as an ev are a far better EV.

Anyway I best get back to manning my Neon sign pointing to my Tesla... its all show after all 🙄

I think that didn't come across exactly as it was meant. I wouldn't buy one at this time predominantly due to how they operate as a company. They probably have more data than other manufacturers, but there have been known defects with them as the car is in effect still in testing. It could be said that this is the same situation for many cars in their first year of production, however most brands don't have those who will deny the problems when asking on forums to the extent of bordering on abuse.

I personally also take issue with the way that a manufacturer can access a car remotely. Data collection is one thing, but attempting to effectively license a vehicle to the owner is another completely.

Experience with Ford is completely different to yours. 208k miles in about 4 years on one (which admittedly did have problems early on that were put right), 106k in just over 18 months on another (the increase caused by a major contract being in Amsterdam rather than on the other side of Europe, making it drivable rather than flyable). There were no issues with the 2nd at all.

I'd never have had a Hyundai/Kia 20-ish years ago, their image and product line has changed considerably in this time, so there is room for change. Those who did shaped the car lineup into what it is today, even if the buyer profile is somewhat different.

Yeah fair enough, I guess I took issue with being described as flashy, that certainly isn't me.
I think the 3 is understated,  which makes me like it more.

I'm not an Elon fan, and am certainly no fan of data mining, but I would say that at least the Tesla tells you up front it will be data mining, (so does the leaf actually) most cars pretend they aren't.
I think saying they are launched as a beta is pretty accurate,  in fact some of the features in the car, self steering springs to mind, actually say that they are a beta, so again, at least they are upfront about it.
But there are other things which are indefensible,  like the picture Ken put up a while ago of a battery (I think) held down with wood and tie wraps.

Ford have done alot to increase their reliability over the last 10-15 years,and they are arguably up with most other brands these days.... but they are still a bland and uninspiring drive.
If you don't like to feel the car through the seat and the steering wheel, then a mondao is probably a great car for you, but i like to be able to feel what the car is doing, and the steering is so vague on a mondao that it's just disconnected, fiestas are the same also.
To be fair, the insignia is the same. They are known in car enthusiasts circles as rep mobiles.
In the same segment the skoda and mazda are far better, and the Toyota is far worse.

And I must admit the Tesla steering feedback is poor too, but the seat feedback is good.

I agree with Ken, the range of tastes and opinions lends itself to a competitive ev marketplace 

CKhalvashi

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.

I see a few Tesla Model 3s on the road these days and to my mind they're pretty bland looking, a little like a Mondeo or an Insignia. Certainly nothing flashy about them. I remember needing to check the badge to make sure they were a Tesla not some odd grey-market import.

The current model Honda Civic looks much more radical and comic-book.

(Having said that, the one time I saw a Model X with the rear doors open I did a double-take.)

Here's a funny thing. I was just putting out the rubbish, and stood and looked at the cars for a bit, and it struck me how very similar the TM3 and Hyundai Ioniq are. They are both fastback designs, and have the same teardrop curve, though the TM3 does start from a lower nose, probably due to the the compact nature of the mechanicals. Also the Ioniq has a small kick up at the rear where the spoiler is, otherwise the tail would match the TM3. But general shape and dimensions, are really similar.

I still like the name Frg for the TM3, just look at one head on, crouch a bit, and it does have a somewhat squashed frog look to it ....... don't do this if the TM3 is mobile ;-)

My BiL summed it up well recently, he said 'I like the white car [the Ioniq], but I covet the Tesla'.

But the TM3 is missing a grille, although I do agree they have similar silhouette.

If given a choice between the TM3 and new Ioniq 5, the TM3 is the prettier car.

I think as Ken says, this is subjective. We are allowed to have different personal preference, and that in general makes the world a nicer place. To clarify, the TM3 isn't overly stand out-ish, definitely not as much as the S and X which is where the comment was largely aimed, and the Y reminds me a bit of the Puma from the front.

OH has a Skoda Yeti, and again I'm not personally a huge fan of the crossover-type vehicles that seem to be popular now. That said, the Enyaq does seem like a vehicle that will fit the needs of a 2nd car at a reasonable price, the requirements largely being range flexibility and something with the body of an estate, having a similar range and being cheaper than the XC40/EQA (the latter of which IMO suffers with the same styling issues mentioned earlier).

The point is also accepted that how something drives/how it fits into a lifestyle is more important than how it looks. Apologies for any offence caused, that wasn't the intention and occasionally proves that a brief explanation occasionally isn't sufficient.

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

Solarchaser said:

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

Solarchaser said:

I like the idea that more mainstream car manufacturers will sort out the EV niggles, especially as I think we are really coming to the end of the EV being "early adopters" only.

However a couple of weeks ago I seen a citreon Picasso on fire in the hard shoulder.... thats not that unusual a site, and usually nothing to do with the ice part of the car.

So I guess we will see.

Why do you see so many tesla complaints, probably for a few reasons, tesla has alot more fanboys than other brands, it also has alot more tech nerds than other brands.
And really you expect a £50k car to just work!

It has been said that Tesla doesn’t need to advertise because of all the Tesla fans spreading the word and that policy seems to be working as I read that the next couple of quarters are sold out already. That is the power of living on the internet but it can have its downside. 

Tesla has also closed its PR department and relies on Elon Musk to smooth any problems over with a dismissive tweet every now and then. The fanboys love that but it can alienate anyone who feels they have a genuine problem and so they go on forums to moan. They then get called trolls and shills by the fanboys and the battles rage on. 

I am not aware of any other brand that divides opinion as much as Tesla and perhaps that is down to the polarised nature of discussion about Tesla. That’s what was refreshing about the warts and all review of your Tesla experience. 

I wouldn't have a Tesla for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

Trying to do things a little differently in business is one thing (we do that, it works relatively well), but I don't like the way the company operates in relation to many areas.

The other reason Tesla as a brand puts me off is that I personally believe in life we should be discreet. To me, someone driving a Tesla comes over as being very show-y, where with the Ioniq there is a petrol version, and VW have it right with the ID3, which to most people looks like a Golf.

So you wouldn't have a car because you don't like the brand.

I mean I kinda get it, id never buy a Ford because they are junk, worked on far too many of them... no I suppose that's based on actual experience. 

Hmm, so yeah you don't like the brand so you won't buy, fair enough, I guess that's why adverts are so successful,  convincing people to buy something they know nothing about.

I think Elon is weird, and the fan boys weirder still, but that takes nothing away from the car.

The car is awesome, that's it really, start, middle and end, it Pi$$es over any other car I've driven or owned.

You prefer ev to look like ice cars, ok, I dont really care too much how they look, I care how they drive.
And you tend to find that cars which were designed as an ev are a far better EV.

Anyway I best get back to manning my Neon sign pointing to my Tesla... its all show after all 🙄

I think that didn't come across exactly as it was meant. I wouldn't buy one at this time predominantly due to how they operate as a company. They probably have more data than other manufacturers, but there have been known defects with them as the car is in effect still in testing. It could be said that this is the same situation for many cars in their first year of production, however most brands don't have those who will deny the problems when asking on forums to the extent of bordering on abuse.

I personally also take issue with the way that a manufacturer can access a car remotely. Data collection is one thing, but attempting to effectively license a vehicle to the owner is another completely.

Experience with Ford is completely different to yours. 208k miles in about 4 years on one (which admittedly did have problems early on that were put right), 106k in just over 18 months on another (the increase caused by a major contract being in Amsterdam rather than on the other side of Europe, making it drivable rather than flyable). There were no issues with the 2nd at all.

I'd never have had a Hyundai/Kia 20-ish years ago, their image and product line has changed considerably in this time, so there is room for change. Those who did shaped the car lineup into what it is today, even if the buyer profile is somewhat different.

But there are other things which are indefensible,  like the picture Ken put up a while ago of a battery (I think) held down with wood and tie wraps.

Let’s be fair, some other luxury car manufacturers also offer wood trim as a no cost option.

Or you can have yellow tape and plastic if green tape and wood is not to your taste. Unfortunately tie wraps must be black.

https://teslanorth.com/2020/09/10/tesla-model-y-owners-shocked-macgyver-install-job/