Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

JKenH said:

Hydrogen fuel cell Defender announced

Land Rover says FCEV prototype to begin testing this year as part of zero emissions drive

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/hydrogen-fuel-cell-defender-announced/44294

Even though I think BEV is the answer I can see why JLR might want to make a hydrogen defender to differentiate it from all the BEVs as a USP

JKenH

A California Startup Now Offers a Full EV Battery in Just 10 Minutes

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/california-startup-now-offers-full-154803601.html

Solarchaser

Martyn1981 said:

Solarchaser said:

Re the leaf, for me the leaf is a great runabout, and thats where it performs best.

It's not really a motorway car for motorway miles, much like most small cars, it can do it, but it's not really the market its aimed at.

The model S and I guess the model 3 are more aimed at the motorway drivers.
The x is like the I pace,  E-tron etc more aimed at the Chelsea tractors market, your range rovers, q7 etc

The leaf will happily sit at 60-65 and return good range, but at 70... not so much in my experience (of the older leaf than Kens).

I've not met any smug or holier than though ev drivers, maybe I'm not looking in the same places though 🤔

Can I ask, now that you've driven two of the same cars as me - I found the first gen Leaf a tiny bit light and 'squirrly' above 70mph, does that fit with you, or perhaps it was just the one we had? Also, and this is difficult to word without sounding pompous, but the TM3 is hard to drive at say 60-70, as it really feels extremely slow, and you just find the speed sneaking up due to the power - I suspect this is something new to me, not because it's a Tesla, but because it's the first truly high speed car I've owned, and perhaps a decent BMW would feel exactly the same - but I just find it so smooth, steady etc etc, that at times I've accidentally gone up to 90-100 without really noticing, or at least I did at first.

Small advert for the TM3 (/all Tesla's) their larger battery packs, plus efficiency, plus the Supercharger network, combined with leccy being pretty cheap compared to petrol/diesel, does make it harder for me (I'll openly admit) to drive super efficiently ...... might as well just get 'there' quicker.

Regarding Tesla chargers, I'd suggest a rough rule of charging to 80% max, and then stopping again if needed, since the charge rate will be much higher/faster. This of course assumes that there is another Supercharger (or three) on the route. So a racing style 'splash and dash' for the car, and depending on bladder range, the driver and passengers too!

QrizB said the leaf can do 93, I've had it at an indicated 95leptons, but I agree that it starts to feel light in the steering, as if the wind is getting under the front of the car. (It probably is)
I wouldn't say it felt in any way dangerous,  but definitely not as planted/content as at 65... where I think it's happiest. 

I dont honestly find the model 3 hard to drive under the speed limit, but thats because I think the adaptive cruise control is A mazing,  and find that 99% of the time my feet are off the pedals on the motorway. 
However I can't deny the itch to stab the pedal when something fast belts past.

I've always had relatively large, usually estate cars for the kind of job I do, so mondao, insignia, mazda 6, skoda octavia and more recently merc c220 which all tend to be fairly happy at 100+ leptons.
But.... the ease in which the Tesla reaches 130leptons is very surprising,  and I don't mean just in acceleration,  I mean its comfortable,  it's not twitchy, it's totally planted, it's only when you glance at the speedo you think.... ok, that's pushing a bit far, behave yourself!!
And what I really like is that over 80leptons it doesn't bring in regen, so there is not the sudden decrease that could potentially unsettle the car at speed, it doesn't come in until you are slowed by wind resistance to 80 leptons, then you feel it engage, thats clever imo.

I think I will continue to drive it relatively efficiently... no tight Scotsman jokes please ... but yeah I have to agree the cheapness will likely encourage less efficient driving for most.
Then again, alot of folk will want to recoup their outlay by annual fuel savings

Solarchaser

JKenH said:

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

...the TM3 is hard to drive at say 60-70, as it really feels extremely slow, and you just find the speed sneaking up due to the power ... but I just find it so smooth, steady etc etc, that at times I've accidentally gone up to 90-100 without really noticing, or at least I did at first.

Does your TM3 have a speed limiter (I'd be shocked if it doesn't)? You could set that to 80?

I've occasionally had hire cars with more poke (and more gadgets) than I'm used to and have found the speed limiter a useful back-stop.

My 40kWh Leaf has both cruise control and speed limiter and the latter gets a lot of use, particularly over the border in N. Nottinghamshire where 50mph average speed cameras cover long stretches of country roads (including dual carriageways) and mobile cameras lurk. I just can’t resist pushing a bit harder on the accelerator and the speed limiter keeps me out of trouble. Cruise isn’t so good as the roads are sometimes too bendy for a Leaf at 50mph. It’s funny how, on cruise, the sensation of speed is much greater as you approach a corner and the car is maintaining a constant speed. 

Something else I noticed on the Leaf is that ACC works at much lower speeds than previous cars I’ve had and allows the car to slow down to and accelerate away from a stand still provided you haven’t been on the brakes. It even works on single carriageways without oncoming cars triggering phantom braking on bends (though maybe that’s normal?). It won’t though stop the car if you come across a stationary car, e.g. at traffic lights. I would also not recommend it for queuing at traffic lights to turn right! I don’t have ProPilot.

On cruise approaching a bend, you are not in control, and thats why it's also a bit of a rush when it makes it round that bend... similar to a roller coaster.
The leaf handles far better than you would think, probably because of the low centre of gravity.

I didn't know the newer leafs had adaptive cruise control, older ones don't, I'm finding it awesome on the tesla.
I have had three times now on the Tesla where it starts braking, and it's perplexed me as there is no impediment I can see... maybe it's just an ACC foible 🤷‍♂️
The Tesla brings you to a total stop where the gen 1 leaf regen cuts out somewhere between 5 and 10mph I find (it's not a constant mph figure, seems different each drive).

It's not good for junctions though, as if the car in front goes, it wants to go too, and there may have only been enough space for 1 car to nip out.

shinytop

Solarchaser said:

Re the leaf, for me the leaf is a great runabout, and thats where it performs best.

It's not really a motorway car for motorway miles, much like most small cars, it can do it, but it's not really the market its aimed at.

The model S and I guess the model 3 are more aimed at the motorway drivers.
The x is like the I pace,  E-tron etc more aimed at the Chelsea tractors market, your range rovers, q7 etc

The leaf will happily sit at 60-65 and return good range, but at 70... not so much in my experience (of the older leaf than Kens).

I've not met any smug or holier than though ev drivers, maybe I'm not looking in the same places though 🤔

 A Nissan Leaf a small car?  It's bigger and heavier that a VW Golf and can do 90 plus mph. You don't need a Model S or Model 3 sized car to drive on a motorway.  It might feel a little more relaxed in one of these but it it's not necessary. 

Martyn1981

This article is worth mentioning, if only to make up for the fact that I keep forgetting to 'big up' Volvo for their progress towards electrification.

Volvo & Volkswagen The Only European Carmakers On Track To Electrify On Time — New Study

T&E’s ranking of the readiness of 10 major OEMs in Europe to transition to electric by 2030¹ shows there are big differences in ambition and quality of their plans. Volkswagen and Volvo Cars have aggressive and credible strategies. Others like Ford have an ambitious phase-out target but lack a robust plan to get there. Stellantis, Daimler, BMW, Jaguar Land Rover, and Toyota rank the worst with low short-term battery electric (BEV) sales, no ambitious phase-out targets, no clear industrial strategy, and an over-reliance in the case of BMW, Daimler, and Toyota on hybrids.

Solarchaser

shinytop said:

Solarchaser said:

Re the leaf, for me the leaf is a great runabout, and thats where it performs best.

It's not really a motorway car for motorway miles, much like most small cars, it can do it, but it's not really the market its aimed at.

The model S and I guess the model 3 are more aimed at the motorway drivers.
The x is like the I pace,  E-tron etc more aimed at the Chelsea tractors market, your range rovers, q7 etc

The leaf will happily sit at 60-65 and return good range, but at 70... not so much in my experience (of the older leaf than Kens).

I've not met any smug or holier than though ev drivers, maybe I'm not looking in the same places though 🤔

 A Nissan Leaf a small car?  It's bigger and heavier that a VW Golf and can do 90 plus mph. You don't need a Model S or Model 3 sized car to drive on a motorway.  It might feel a little more relaxed in one of these but it it's not necessary. 

I'm glad you agree 👍

My k10 micra 30 years ago could do 100mph.
It's far more relaxing doing it in the model 3.

Martyn1981

I think we've seen/heard/discussed this before, but perhaps not the whole picture as presented here, with the UK looking for interested car companies.

UK in talks to build battery ‘gigafactories’ for electric cars

The UK government has held talks with six manufacturers about building “gigafactory” electric car battery plants as part of its efforts to improve the prospects of the British automotive industry.

The US carmaker Ford and the Korean electronics conglomerates LG and Samsung are among the companies that have had early-stage discussions with the government or local authorities, it is understood.

They add to talks over possible investment by the Japanese carmaker Nissan, as well as two efforts by smaller startups, InoBat and Britishvolt. The talks were first reported by the Financial Times.

JKenH

'You have the right to remain silent': UK forces to trial electric Tesla Model 3 police car that can hit 60mph in 3.1 seconds and give chase for 350 miles

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9697347/You-right-remain-silent-UK-forces-trial-Tesla-Model-3-police-car.html

Martyn1981

GM is massively ramping up their already ramped up investment in EV's, I think they've finally realised that disruption is getting nearer, the transition away from ICEV's won't be slow, steady and linear.

GM Boosting EV Investment 30%, Will Build 2 More Battery Factories

Reuters is reporting this week that General Motors, the stodgy custodian of “not invented here” thinking that has typified the world of US auto manufacturing for generations, has finally awoken to the EV revolution. The news service says GM will boost global spending on electric and autonomous vehicles to $35 billion through 2025, a 30% jump over its most recent forecast.

It was only last November that The General said it would invest $20 billion in electric vehicle manufacturing. Here it is just a little over 6 months later and that number has nearly doubled. The company says it will build only battery electric cars by 2035, but anyone who is paying attention to how rapidly the changeover to EVs is happening would probably predict the shift to electric cars at GM will take place at least 5 years sooner.

As part of its new spending plans, the largest automaker in the US says it will build two more US battery plants at a cost of more than $2 billion each. That’s in addition to the two already in the works. It will also accelerate the timing of some of its EV investments, sources tell Reuters. GM says it plans to sell more than one million electric vehicles a year between the US and China by 2025.

This got me thinking about Ford, who have now, IMO, stolen a lead on GM with the Mach-E and the promised F-150 lightning (L-150(?)). This next bit is pretty convoluted, and may not make much sense, nor be sensible, but I've got a sneaky feeling Ford may find themselves in trouble in 2022+ after the L-150 launches.

The vehicle looks good, and is priced well at $40k and $50k for the simpler variants, appears to have decent range, practicality and will be cheaper to own and operate. Also worth noting that the average sales price of F-150's is about $57k.

So, what's the problem? That'll be the incoming BEV subsidy which could be $12.5k for built in the US L-150's. At that price, and, IMO, a better product, demand for the L-150 at $28k+, should be enormous. But production will only be ramping up towards 40-50k pa, when F series trucks sell around 1m pa. So, what happens if say 250k+ potential buyers decide they want the Lightning, and are willing to wait ..... the Osborne effect?

Ford make almost all their money/profits on the F series trucks, so any loss of sales will impact profits, just when they need every penny to invest in BEV expansion.

Back to reality, I'm going to guess that Ford will have to ramp up L-150 production asap, but possibly battery constrained.

None of this is a criticism of Ford, it's simply too good a product/price, and could disrupt themselves, much in the same way that the Porsche Taycan has destroyed Panamera sales, but Porsche has been able to pivot due to lower production numbers (battery supply issues).

Fun times ahead, going to be a very interesting decade for the old companies having and trying to adjust to the future.