Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Solarchaser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Solarchaser said:

So I travelled the 400 miles to deepest darkest Englandshire today from brightest sunniest Scotlandshire. 🤪

What can I tell you about the Tesla There's no way you are getting 360 miles 

at 265 miles I'd used 65kwh and 91% of that when I pulled up to a supercharger.  

So I'd say at a push I'd get to 280... maybe even 290.

144kw charge rate, which unfortunately had dropped to 50kw when I came back from visiting the services, likely due to the other 3 teslas that had plugged in to other stalls in that time

Thanks for your post and very information figures.

In summary, you did 400 miles and only had to stop once.  How much time did that add to your journey over-and-above the stop you would have made in any event even with an ICE car for refreshment fill and empty (human refuel as opposed to car refuel)?

I don't think anyone really expects to achieve the test range of 360 miles any more than the test MPG can be achieved in an ICE.  Just shy of 300 miles real range motorway driving is adequate for anyone - 4 hours driving you should be having a break in that time for safety even if your bladder is particularly robust.

Hard to see many situations where that range will be insufficient. 

• London - Manchester = 209 miles
• Cambridge - Plymouth = 299 miles
• Cardiff - Snowdon = 167 miles
• Newcastle - Blackpool = 155 miles
• York - Edinburgh = 209 miles

Yeah I'd say that was accurate.
400 miles on roughly a tank and a half.
How much time did the stop add, yeah good question, maybe 5-10 mins of my indecision,  it was at 85% when I was ready to go(walked back to the car), but the supercharger was in direct sunlight, and I never left the aircon on, so when I came back It was roasting hot, so i put aircon on and waited 5-10 mins thinking... should I wait until it gets to 100%.... nah and at this point it was at 91% and so I unplugged and went.

And yeah to be honest I'd normally stop around 180-200 miles, I only went on because I wanted to see how far the car would go on that one charge. So really I think if I'd just charged at 200 miles and went again it would have been the same as the previous ice car.

Honestly I'd have been happier to see 300 miles, I never expected 360. I would have been content with 280... I'd I'd probably have reached that, but wasn't worth the risk

That seems pretty reasonable to me given the speeds you were travelling at. (M3s always seem to be travelling in the outside lane which is somewhere I barely venture in the Leaf). I would love someone to do a comparison of consumption of various EVs at a steady 70mph. I have never found any of the motoring magazines to be particularly scientific at measuring consumption, often just concluding that the quoted WLTP range seems realistic based on a few miles driving.The Hyundai/Kias seem to have good overall consumption but are built like the proverbial outhouse compared to a slippery Tesla. I did find this video useful though. https://youtu.be/t0KODBGQVCM

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

M3s always seem to be travelling in the outside lane which is somewhere I barely venture in the Leaf

Actually, that behaviour, which seems representative of Leaf drivers, is a problem that detracts from the whole EV adoption - slow cars that can't keep up and have to crawl in the inside lane to stretch the battery so they can get home.  Then get home and rave how range anxiety is not a "thing" - direct contrast to demonstrated reality.

The Highway Code requires that you "make progress" and it can be a reason for deducting scores in the test:
https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driving-test/marking/progress.htm

Just sitting slowly in the inside lane causes delay and is a danger to other road users.  Still, EV drivers have a weirdo looking car just to who how smug and holier-than-though they really are.

I'm all for EV's, but they need to be more E-Tron GT than i3.

Solarchaser

Re the leaf, for me the leaf is a great runabout, and thats where it performs best.

It's not really a motorway car for motorway miles, much like most small cars, it can do it, but it's not really the market its aimed at.

The model S and I guess the model 3 are more aimed at the motorway drivers.
The x is like the I pace,  E-tron etc more aimed at the Chelsea tractors market, your range rovers, q7 etc

The leaf will happily sit at 60-65 and return good range, but at 70... not so much in my experience (of the older leaf than Kens).

I've not met any smug or holier than though ev drivers, maybe I'm not looking in the same places though 🤔

Solarchaser

Very interesting video Ken, thanks 👍

The throttling at the higher percentage on the model 3 suggests that it wasn't the other cars on the stalls slowing my charge as I suspected, but just normal model 3 tailing off.
So might be worth trying low percentage to 50% charge and dash instead of waiting till 90%

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

M3s always seem to be travelling in the outside lane which is somewhere I barely venture in the Leaf

The Highway Code requires that you "make progress" and it can be a reason for deducting scores in the test:
https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driving-test/marking/progress.htm

According to Wikipedia the 2011 Leaf will do 93 mph.

My elderly Fiat Panda has the same quoted top speed - and can keep up with traffic at 65-70. I wouldn't choose to drive it much faster than that, even though it's capable. (It's also not legal, in case anyone didn't get the memo.)

Martyn1981

Solarchaser said:

Re the leaf, for me the leaf is a great runabout, and thats where it performs best.

It's not really a motorway car for motorway miles, much like most small cars, it can do it, but it's not really the market its aimed at.

The model S and I guess the model 3 are more aimed at the motorway drivers.
The x is like the I pace,  E-tron etc more aimed at the Chelsea tractors market, your range rovers, q7 etc

The leaf will happily sit at 60-65 and return good range, but at 70... not so much in my experience (of the older leaf than Kens).

I've not met any smug or holier than though ev drivers, maybe I'm not looking in the same places though 🤔

Can I ask, now that you've driven two of the same cars as me - I found the first gen Leaf a tiny bit light and 'squirrly' above 70mph, does that fit with you, or perhaps it was just the one we had? Also, and this is difficult to word without sounding pompous, but the TM3 is hard to drive at say 60-70, as it really feels extremely slow, and you just find the speed sneaking up due to the power - I suspect this is something new to me, not because it's a Tesla, but because it's the first truly high speed car I've owned, and perhaps a decent BMW would feel exactly the same - but I just find it so smooth, steady etc etc, that at times I've accidentally gone up to 90-100 without really noticing, or at least I did at first.

Small advert for the TM3 (/all Tesla's) their larger battery packs, plus efficiency, plus the Supercharger network, combined with leccy being pretty cheap compared to petrol/diesel, does make it harder for me (I'll openly admit) to drive super efficiently ...... might as well just get 'there' quicker.

Regarding Tesla chargers, I'd suggest a rough rule of charging to 80% max, and then stopping again if needed, since the charge rate will be much higher/faster. This of course assumes that there is another Supercharger (or three) on the route. So a racing style 'splash and dash' for the car, and depending on bladder range, the driver and passengers too!

michaels

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

M3s always seem to be travelling in the outside lane which is somewhere I barely venture in the Leaf

The Highway Code requires that you "make progress" and it can be a reason for deducting scores in the test:
https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driving-test/marking/progress.htm

According to Wikipedia the 2011 Leaf will do 93 mph.

My elderly Fiat Panda has the same quoted top speed - and can keep up with traffic at 65-70. I wouldn't choose to drive it much faster than that, even though it's capable. (It's also not legal, in case anyone didn't get the memo.)

In the interests of research I have pushed the 2015 leaf up to its limiter (indicated 100, actual 93) and think it feels pretty planted compared to lighter small cars - however I am aware of its weight and tend to back off slightly on those sweeping dual carriageway bends.  However higher speeds do kill the range so if I have much more than a 20 mile hop to do I will normally drive pretty sedately on the motorway and of course if I have an 80-90 mile round trip I will look for a lorry for a tow, adds 5 mins to the journey time but saves much more than that if I can do the round trip without a charge stop.

I also suspect that pulling 80kw from the battery (pretty much twice the max charge rate) is probably bad for cell longevity.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

...the TM3 is hard to drive at say 60-70, as it really feels extremely slow, and you just find the speed sneaking up due to the power ... but I just find it so smooth, steady etc etc, that at times I've accidentally gone up to 90-100 without really noticing, or at least I did at first.

Does your TM3 have a speed limiter (I'd be shocked if it doesn't)? You could set that to 80?

I've occasionally had hire cars with more poke (and more gadgets) than I'm used to and have found the speed limiter a useful back-stop.

JKenH

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

...the TM3 is hard to drive at say 60-70, as it really feels extremely slow, and you just find the speed sneaking up due to the power ... but I just find it so smooth, steady etc etc, that at times I've accidentally gone up to 90-100 without really noticing, or at least I did at first.

Does your TM3 have a speed limiter (I'd be shocked if it doesn't)? You could set that to 80?

I've occasionally had hire cars with more poke (and more gadgets) than I'm used to and have found the speed limiter a useful back-stop.

My 40kWh Leaf has both cruise control and speed limiter and the latter gets a lot of use, particularly over the border in N. Nottinghamshire where 50mph average speed cameras cover long stretches of country roads (including dual carriageways) and mobile cameras lurk. I just can’t resist pushing a bit harder on the accelerator and the speed limiter keeps me out of trouble. Cruise isn’t so good as the roads are sometimes too bendy for a Leaf at 50mph. It’s funny how, on cruise, the sensation of speed is much greater as you approach a corner and the car is maintaining a constant speed. 

Something else I noticed on the Leaf is that ACC works at much lower speeds than previous cars I’ve had and allows the car to slow down to and accelerate away from a stand still provided you haven’t been on the brakes. It even works on single carriageways without oncoming cars triggering phantom braking on bends (though maybe that’s normal?). It won’t though stop the car if you come across a stationary car, e.g. at traffic lights. I would also not recommend it for queuing at traffic lights to turn right! I don’t have ProPilot.

JKenH

Hydrogen fuel cell Defender announced

Land Rover says FCEV prototype to begin testing this year as part of zero emissions drive

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/hydrogen-fuel-cell-defender-announced/44294