Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

I'm so sorry for upsetting you. Had I known the facts like yourself, such as all 'not so well off' people drive 20yr old Corolla's, whilst all second, third and fourth cars in wealthier households are low usage classic MG's, then I too would have questioned the claims and statistics made.
As you suggest, we should look to facts and truths, not just accept wild claims.

Such a shame though that you went with 'green evangelism'. Not a surprise, but such a shame.

Martyn1981

Should have mentioned this before, as it could change the World ..... well, America. It's the launch of the Ford F150 Lightning, and it looks like a seriously good piece of kit. It even has an onboard power supply of nearly 10kW for running power tools etc, and V2H.
And that frunk or MegaFrunk, is probbaly bigger than the boot on most cars.

The Ford F-150 Lightning Is A BIG Win — 3 Core Questions Remain

The biggest stunner regarding the Ford F-150 Lightning is its price tag. The starting price is just below $40,000, about $20,000–$35,000 less than most people seemed to be expecting. It is truly cost competitive and also performs better than a fossil fuel F-150. The more decked out and pricier option is the quickest F-150 in history, demoting the F-150 Raptor. You don’t bring this truck to market at such a low cost on the bottom end and with such high performance on the top end with a goal of just getting some good PR and then forgetting all about electricity. This is for real.

The Ford F-150 Lightning’s Mega Power Frunk Will Be A HUGE Consumer Attraction

The Ford F-150 Lightning Mega Power Frunk is a beast. It is really large. It’s also very easy to access and put stuff into. As you can see from the following pictures, it’s practically a perfect storage cabin whether you’re storing work equipment, camping bags, a large cooler, or golf bags.

One more thing to consider: traditionally, if you have a pickup truck, you have to have a solution on top to be able to secure anything large in the bed of the truck. There is no trunk, of course. Now, with the Ford F-150 Lightning, you get a trunk! And it’s a sweet one, at that. It looks easier to access than most trunks, and also has power hookups in it. That’s an ideal addition for either a work truck or a family mover.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

Should have mentioned this before, as it could change the World ..... well, America.

The F-150 is being well received in a couple of US forums I watch.

There's a BEV Transit on the way. Hopefully the F-150 technology will be seen there, too.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

Should have mentioned this before, as it could change the World ..... well, America. It's the launch of the Ford F150 Lightning, and it looks like a seriously good piece of kit. It even has an onboard power supply of nearly 10kW for running power tools etc, and V2H.
And that frunk or MegaFrunk, is probbaly bigger than the boot on most cars.

The Ford F-150 Lightning Is A BIG Win — 3 Core Questions Remain

The biggest stunner regarding the Ford F-150 Lightning is its price tag. The starting price is just below $40,000, about $20,000–$35,000 less than most people seemed to be expecting. It is truly cost competitive and also performs better than a fossil fuel F-150. The more decked out and pricier option is the quickest F-150 in history, demoting the F-150 Raptor. You don’t bring this truck to market at such a low cost on the bottom end and with such high performance on the top end with a goal of just getting some good PR and then forgetting all about electricity. This is for real.

The Ford F-150 Lightning’s Mega Power Frunk Will Be A HUGE Consumer Attraction

The Ford F-150 Lightning Mega Power Frunk is a beast. It is really large. It’s also very easy to access and put stuff into. As you can see from the following pictures, it’s practically a perfect storage cabin whether you’re storing work equipment, camping bags, a large cooler, or golf bags.

One more thing to consider: traditionally, if you have a pickup truck, you have to have a solution on top to be able to secure anything large in the bed of the truck. There is no trunk, of course. Now, with the Ford F-150 Lightning, you get a trunk! And it’s a sweet one, at that. It looks easier to access than most trunks, and also has power hookups in it. That’s an ideal addition for either a work truck or a family mover.

Tesla may only have built a single prototype cyber truck, but just by announcing it and garnering half a million plus pre-orders they seemed to have forced Fords hand, right down to pricing the entry level at a working vehicle price point not just doing a top of the range luxury price.  Elon has always claimed his mission with Tesla is to move transport to a sustainable basis and perhaps this is the best example of it not just happening through sales of Tesla vehicles.

Martyn1981

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

Should have mentioned this before, as it could change the World ..... well, America. It's the launch of the Ford F150 Lightning, and it looks like a seriously good piece of kit. It even has an onboard power supply of nearly 10kW for running power tools etc, and V2H.
And that frunk or MegaFrunk, is probbaly bigger than the boot on most cars.

The Ford F-150 Lightning Is A BIG Win — 3 Core Questions Remain

The biggest stunner regarding the Ford F-150 Lightning is its price tag. The starting price is just below $40,000, about $20,000–$35,000 less than most people seemed to be expecting. It is truly cost competitive and also performs better than a fossil fuel F-150. The more decked out and pricier option is the quickest F-150 in history, demoting the F-150 Raptor. You don’t bring this truck to market at such a low cost on the bottom end and with such high performance on the top end with a goal of just getting some good PR and then forgetting all about electricity. This is for real.

The Ford F-150 Lightning’s Mega Power Frunk Will Be A HUGE Consumer Attraction

The Ford F-150 Lightning Mega Power Frunk is a beast. It is really large. It’s also very easy to access and put stuff into. As you can see from the following pictures, it’s practically a perfect storage cabin whether you’re storing work equipment, camping bags, a large cooler, or golf bags.

One more thing to consider: traditionally, if you have a pickup truck, you have to have a solution on top to be able to secure anything large in the bed of the truck. There is no trunk, of course. Now, with the Ford F-150 Lightning, you get a trunk! And it’s a sweet one, at that. It looks easier to access than most trunks, and also has power hookups in it. That’s an ideal addition for either a work truck or a family mover.

Tesla may only have built a single prototype cyber truck, but just by announcing it and garnering half a million plus pre-orders they seemed to have forced Fords hand, right down to pricing the entry level at a working vehicle price point not just doing a top of the range luxury price.  Elon has always claimed his mission with Tesla is to move transport to a sustainable basis and perhaps this is the best example of it not just happening through sales of Tesla vehicles.

Given it's the undisputable sales champion of the US car and light truck sectors, and has been for decades, and that 'truck people' may not be convinced by BEV's nor the need to address the climate crisis, then an electric truck that is actually better than the petrol and diesel versions, is a seriously large Cuckoo in the nest. Though Ford will need to increase their plans to build 50k pa, somewhere closer to the 1m F-150 sales numbers pa..

Ford may not be happy with this, but many news articles point to the F-150 Lightning as the most important vehicle Tesla has built so far. I felt the same about the Chevy Bolt when it launched just ahead of the TM3, but with sales still at 2-3k pm, I think GM have shown their true colours, and handed the baton over to VWG, who seem to be taking things seriously.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Ford may not be happy with this, but many news articles point to the F-150 Lightning as the most important vehicle Tesla has built so far. I felt the same about the Chevy Bolt when it launched just ahead of the TM3, but with sales still at 2-3k pm, I think GM have shown their true colours, and handed the baton over to VWG, who seem to be taking things seriously.

None of the other manufacturers seem to have grasped the nettle in the same way as Tesla.  Even the VAG.  Comparing a TM3 versus Audi Q4 e-Tron, the Audi is possibly the better car (plus it is electric).  Spec them up to similar states and the price is about the same.  BUT Audi will simply sell you the car whereas Tesla will sell you the full EV solution with charging solutions etc. and therefore have the better electric car.  If I was buying today (I'm not), it would definitely be the TM3 that wins despite it being less good as a match for lifestyle - saloon not hatch - uncomfortable about the single display - no privacy glass - poor reports about fit & finish.  That Audi (who have been building cars for centuries) can make a better car than Tesla (who have not) is maybe not a shock to anyone.  That Tesla can make a better EV than any one else is perhaps not surprising for the same reason of experience.  I can quite see this playing out that Tesla plus one of the big car brands end up in same ownership in the next decade or so.

JKenH

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

Should have mentioned this before, as it could change the World ..... well, America. It's the launch of the Ford F150 Lightning, and it looks like a seriously good piece of kit. It even has an onboard power supply of nearly 10kW for running power tools etc, and V2H.
And that frunk or MegaFrunk, is probbaly bigger than the boot on most cars.

The Ford F-150 Lightning Is A BIG Win — 3 Core Questions Remain

The biggest stunner regarding the Ford F-150 Lightning is its price tag. The starting price is just below $40,000, about $20,000–$35,000 less than most people seemed to be expecting. It is truly cost competitive and also performs better than a fossil fuel F-150. The more decked out and pricier option is the quickest F-150 in history, demoting the F-150 Raptor. You don’t bring this truck to market at such a low cost on the bottom end and with such high performance on the top end with a goal of just getting some good PR and then forgetting all about electricity. This is for real.

The Ford F-150 Lightning’s Mega Power Frunk Will Be A HUGE Consumer Attraction

The Ford F-150 Lightning Mega Power Frunk is a beast. It is really large. It’s also very easy to access and put stuff into. As you can see from the following pictures, it’s practically a perfect storage cabin whether you’re storing work equipment, camping bags, a large cooler, or golf bags.

One more thing to consider: traditionally, if you have a pickup truck, you have to have a solution on top to be able to secure anything large in the bed of the truck. There is no trunk, of course. Now, with the Ford F-150 Lightning, you get a trunk! And it’s a sweet one, at that. It looks easier to access than most trunks, and also has power hookups in it. That’s an ideal addition for either a work truck or a family mover.

Tesla may only have built a single prototype cyber truck, but just by announcing it and garnering half a million plus pre-orders they seemed to have forced Fords hand, right down to pricing the entry level at a working vehicle price point not just doing a top of the range luxury price.  Elon has always claimed his mission with Tesla is to move transport to a sustainable basis and perhaps this is the best example of it not just happening through sales of Tesla vehicles.

Although some may say it is Elon Musk’s mission to convert the world to EVs, (and it doesn’t matter who builds them), one can’t help wonder from a business point of view if Tesla have squandered their first mover advantage just as Nissan did before them. The success (in terms of orders) of the Cybertruck may have forced Ford’s hand but was it wise, commercially, for Tesla to invent a product (the electric pick up), demonstrate there was already a huge demand for it and then fail to bring it to the market before the competition? Ford might yet, though, still screw this up by not grabbing the market because of limited production but with the fantastic reception the F-150 has received this game is now theirs to lose. 

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Ford may not be happy with this, but many news articles point to the F-150 Lightning as the most important vehicle Tesla has built so far. I felt the same about the Chevy Bolt when it launched just ahead of the TM3, but with sales still at 2-3k pm, I think GM have shown their true colours, and handed the baton over to VWG, who seem to be taking things seriously.

None of the other manufacturers seem to have grasped the nettle in the same way as Tesla.  Even the VAG.  Comparing a TM3 versus Audi Q4 e-Tron, the Audi is possibly the better car (plus it is electric).  Spec them up to similar states and the price is about the same.  BUT Audi will simply sell you the car whereas Tesla will sell you the full EV solution with charging solutions etc. and therefore have the better electric car.  If I was buying today (I'm not), it would definitely be the TM3 that wins despite it being less good as a match for lifestyle - saloon not hatch - uncomfortable about the single display - no privacy glass - poor reports about fit & finish.  That Audi (who have been building cars for centuries) can make a better car than Tesla (who have not) is maybe not a shock to anyone.  That Tesla can make a better EV than any one else is perhaps not surprising for the same reason of experience.  I can quite see this playing out that Tesla plus one of the big car brands end up in same ownership in the next decade or so.

Most BEV sales will be going to people who are purchasing one for the first time. Some enthusiasts will have done their homework but for many it is a step into the unknown and buyers will cling onto what they know. For that reason I expect the likes of VW/Audi to do well with sales to those buying for the first time. With time however one learns what really matters and what attracted you to a car isn’t what is important in living with it. 

I think it is significant that in a survey done in California about 1 in 5 EV owners have actually switched back to gas cars, but the proportion is far lower among Tesla owners. The difference is the charging experience. Tesla may receive criticism for the build quality and customer service but that all pales into insignificance compared to charging. 

I imagine that pick ups in the US will spend a lot of their time being used locally and the 230/300 mile range/lack of Tesla charging network will be less of a limitation than with a saloon car. I don’t see Ford having a problem selling all they can build, much like Tesla and their cars.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Ford may not be happy with this, but many news articles point to the F-150 Lightning as the most important vehicle Tesla has built so far. I felt the same about the Chevy Bolt when it launched just ahead of the TM3, but with sales still at 2-3k pm, I think GM have shown their true colours, and handed the baton over to VWG, who seem to be taking things seriously.

None of the other manufacturers seem to have grasped the nettle in the same way as Tesla.  Even the VAG.  Comparing a TM3 versus Audi Q4 e-Tron, the Audi is possibly the better car (plus it is electric).  Spec them up to similar states and the price is about the same.  BUT Audi will simply sell you the car whereas Tesla will sell you the full EV solution with charging solutions etc. and therefore have the better electric car.  If I was buying today (I'm not), it would definitely be the TM3 that wins despite it being less good as a match for lifestyle - saloon not hatch - uncomfortable about the single display - no privacy glass - poor reports about fit & finish.  That Audi (who have been building cars for centuries) can make a better car than Tesla (who have not) is maybe not a shock to anyone.  That Tesla can make a better EV than any one else is perhaps not surprising for the same reason of experience.  I can quite see this playing out that Tesla plus one of the big car brands end up in same ownership in the next decade or so.

Yes, the Q4 looks like it will have similar pricing to the TM3 when it comes out.

Totally agree about practicality, I prefer hatchbacks, though I did get a set of 6ft steps, plus about a dozen toolboxes in the boot of the TM3, and have made several trips up and down a dual carraigeway with dozens of 3.6m lengths of timber and batoning hanging out the back, though I did drive in chill mode, just in case I forgot and accelerated too hard, leaving it all in the road. 

I think the TMY is a far, far better shaped vehicle for hauling 'stuff', and hopefully, when Berlin comes on line, they may be able to build them for the same cost as the TM3, plus additional savings from avoiding import taxes (give or take Brexit), but I suspect the selling price will be higher. 

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 said:

 Lots of solutions already exist, such as pop up chargers, lampost chargers, charging at locations such as shopping centres, cinemas, etc etc, and an odd/interesting one which would involve using another households drive and charger during the day ....... what!!! This isn't new, people already 'rent' drives near where they work if parking is tricky, from people who drive their cars to somewhere else during the day, so a new scheme, or an extension of the existing ones, could solve this.

And as if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared:

Got an electric car charger at home? Share it and earn cash

Electric car owners with a charger installed at their home can sign up to a community app that allows them to share it with neighbours, while making them a little extra cash at the same time.

Designed to get local communities sharing the 300,000 privately owned electric chargers across the country, the Co Charger app puts electric vehicle owners who don’t have a charger of their own in touch with neighbours who do.

Joel Teague, the man behind it, came up with the idea after his new electric Renault Zoe arrived without its charger. A kind neighbour allowed him to use his, with Teague popping £5 in his letterbox each time.

Teague is convinced that shared privately owned chargers will be a big part of the solution. Increasingly, small businesses are installing chargers and opening them up to others to use via the app. In County Durham, a Methodist church has recently added its charger to the site, and other bodies are already following suit, he says.