We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Carole Nash Motorbike Insurance, LONG post
My Partner John has been with Carole Nash Insurance for his motorbikes since 2014 and everything has been fine and dandy until this year. Since he is decidedly old school, only uses email when forced to, he always gets paper documents, except this year Carole Nash have decided to move him to a paperless policy without his knowledge or consent. His Insurance is due for renewal on the 26/10 and it's auto renewal, but he would get his docs in good time, enough to use his 14day cooling period if needed, and haggle if he needed to. Since he only rides for pleasure and doesn't ride in winter any more he's not jumping up and down waiting for the policy, it landing on the doormat is his reminder. This year the first he was reminded about the insurance was an email from Close Premium Finance (CPF), as said he doesn't use email all that often so only checks it if he knows he's bought something. The email from CPF wanted his electronic signature, since he is aware of email scams, and was expecting paper docs he initially ignored it, but then noticed two earlier emails, dated 28/10 and 01/11 and decide to open the latest one dated Saturday 9th to check it, & it was legit. He rang Carole Nash on the 11/11 to ask what was going on & where was his policy, since he wasn't going to sign a finance agreement without review. They claim they had sent docs out at the beginning of October, NO, nothing, so he asked for details of his policy to find it had gone up. He then had a long phone call with the agent that got nowhere, finally ending with his repeated request for his docs. Now at this point since the policy was due on the 26th, of course the cooling off period had expired & a payment had been missed, no mention of this by the agent on the phone.
On the 14/11 he received a letter from CPF dated 07/11 to say he'd missed his first payment due on the 28/10 and was now had a £30 penalty, he rang CPF to be told the bank did not recognise the DD presumably because he hadn't signed the finance agreement. He then decided to go back through previously unread emails, and found two from Carole Nash, first on the 21/10 then 24/10 detailing his policy. He rang Carole Nash after CPF & they insisted he had chosen to go paperless but couldn't say when and wouldn't rescind the penalty payment, this after saying on the 11/11 that they had sent his paperwork out at the beginning of October! After nearly an hour on the phone going round in circles he asked to cancel the policy & was put through to customer services who again insisted he'd agreed to go paperless, when he refuted this the agent went silent, but then told him he'd have to pay an exit fee but wouldn't state what it would be. Today he's received his finance schedule from CPF (still no insurance docs), including surprise, surprise a paper copy of the finance agreement for him to sign, and the name on the DD mandate is wrong, it has my name on it. Back in 2014 I was on Johns bank account & CPF dealt with our car insurance, which I organised, I came off the bank account 2015 and it was probably that year we changed car insurance, so it was no longer financed by CPF.
So the question is were does he stand, I read that even if a policy is auto-renewal he has to be notified in good time, in this case no documents because Carole Nash deciding to make it a paperless policy without his knowledge and first email from Carole Nash 5 days before the start of the policy. Looking through last years policy there is no mention of going paperless, and then a penalty payment for missing the 1st instalment even though he hadn't signed the finance agreement which has the wrong name on it.
On the 14/11 he received a letter from CPF dated 07/11 to say he'd missed his first payment due on the 28/10 and was now had a £30 penalty, he rang CPF to be told the bank did not recognise the DD presumably because he hadn't signed the finance agreement. He then decided to go back through previously unread emails, and found two from Carole Nash, first on the 21/10 then 24/10 detailing his policy. He rang Carole Nash after CPF & they insisted he had chosen to go paperless but couldn't say when and wouldn't rescind the penalty payment, this after saying on the 11/11 that they had sent his paperwork out at the beginning of October! After nearly an hour on the phone going round in circles he asked to cancel the policy & was put through to customer services who again insisted he'd agreed to go paperless, when he refuted this the agent went silent, but then told him he'd have to pay an exit fee but wouldn't state what it would be. Today he's received his finance schedule from CPF (still no insurance docs), including surprise, surprise a paper copy of the finance agreement for him to sign, and the name on the DD mandate is wrong, it has my name on it. Back in 2014 I was on Johns bank account & CPF dealt with our car insurance, which I organised, I came off the bank account 2015 and it was probably that year we changed car insurance, so it was no longer financed by CPF.
So the question is were does he stand, I read that even if a policy is auto-renewal he has to be notified in good time, in this case no documents because Carole Nash deciding to make it a paperless policy without his knowledge and first email from Carole Nash 5 days before the start of the policy. Looking through last years policy there is no mention of going paperless, and then a penalty payment for missing the 1st instalment even though he hadn't signed the finance agreement which has the wrong name on it.
0
Comments
-
I lost the will reading this.
In summary, what do they want what do you want.0 -
As per post #20
-
I made it a long post to get all the details in rather than jump back & forth answering 'what about this/that'. Right now after all this John wants to leave Carole Nash, policy has gone up & this time it can't be negociated back down, but he doesn't want to pay penalty/exit fee's because the broker moved him onto a paperless policy without his knowledge & he's missed deadlines. Simple enough.0
-
My Partner John has been with Carole Nash Insurance for his motorbikes since 2014 and everything has been fine and dandy until this year. Since he is decidedly old school, only uses email when forced to, he always gets paper documents, except this year Carole Nash have decided to move him to a paperless policy without his knowledge or consent.
His Insurance is due for renewal on the 26/10 and it's auto renewal, but he would get his docs in good time, enough to use his 14day cooling period if needed, and haggle if he needed to. Since he only rides for pleasure and doesn't ride in winter any more he's not jumping up and down waiting for the policy, it landing on the doormat is his reminder.
This year the first he was reminded about the insurance was an email from Close Premium Finance (CPF), as said he doesn't use email all that often so only checks it if he knows he's bought something. The email from CPF wanted his electronic signature, since he is aware of email scams, and was expecting paper docs he initially ignored it, but then noticed two earlier emails, dated 28/10 and 01/11 and decide to open the latest one dated Saturday 9th to check it, & it was legit.
He rang Carole Nash on the 11/11 to ask what was going on & where was his policy, since he wasn't going to sign a finance agreement without review. They claim they had sent docs out at the beginning of October, NO, nothing, so he asked for details of his policy to find it had gone up. He then had a long phone call with the agent that got nowhere, finally ending with his repeated request for his docs. Now at this point since the policy was due on the 26th, of course the cooling off period had expired & a payment had been missed, no mention of this by the agent on the phone.
On the 14/11 he received a letter from CPF dated 07/11 to say he'd missed his first payment due on the 28/10 and was now had a £30 penalty, he rang CPF to be told the bank did not recognise the DD presumably because he hadn't signed the finance agreement. He then decided to go back through previously unread emails, and found two from Carole Nash, first on the 21/10 then 24/10 detailing his policy. He rang Carole Nash after CPF & they insisted he had chosen to go paperless but couldn't say when and wouldn't rescind the penalty payment, this after saying on the 11/11 that they had sent his paperwork out at the beginning of October!
After nearly an hour on the phone going round in circles he asked to cancel the policy & was put through to customer services who again insisted he'd agreed to go paperless, when he refuted this the agent went silent, but then told him he'd have to pay an exit fee but wouldn't state what it would be. Today he's received his finance schedule from CPF (still no insurance docs), including surprise, surprise a paper copy of the finance agreement for him to sign, and the name on the DD mandate is wrong, it has my name on it. Back in 2014 I was on Johns bank account & CPF dealt with our car insurance, which I organised, I came off the bank account 2015 and it was probably that year we changed car insurance, so it was no longer financed by CPF.
So the question is were does he stand, I read that even if a policy is auto-renewal he has to be notified in good time, in this case no documents because Carole Nash deciding to make it a paperless policy without his knowledge and first email from Carole Nash 5 days before the start of the policy. Looking through last years policy there is no mention of going paperless, and then a penalty payment for missing the 1st instalment even though he hadn't signed the finance agreement which has the wrong name on it.
Hopefully that's easier to read than the crazy wall of text in the OP.0 -
That crazy wall of text is to make sure all the details are in, I come from a legal background where the devil was in the detail, but hey if y'all can't be bothered to read it why bother posting. Nice welcomes.0
-
I lost the will reading this.
In summary, what do they want what do you want.As per post #2
Long story short on behalf of OP
OP (well actually partner thereof, but I will refer to that person as OP for simplicity) has bought motorcycle insurance from CN since 2014.
Auto renewal was agreed.
Renewal was due end of last month, but OP failed to read the renewal notification (it was sent by email rather than hard copy)
OP failed to pay the first payment/installment for this year on time, so £30 late payment fee has now been applied as well.
OP's position is as follows:
Despite auto renewal agreed, OP claims not to have agreed to renewal without their express permission.
OP denies receiving the renewal notification as they failed to read their emails. They accept an email was sent, but they did not read it. They claim no permission to communicate to them via email exists.
Which begs the following questions from me.
How/why did CN obtain OP's email address if that was not an agreed form of communication?
How was auto renewal agreed by CN, when CN had no ongoing payment in place (e.g. direct debit, CPA, etc?)
Why did the OP agree to auto renewal if they wanted to first review any renewal and provide express permission to renew (as opposed to express instruction not to renew expected with any auto renewal agreement)0 -
I made it a long post to get all the details in rather than jump back & forth answering 'what about this/that'. Right now after all this John wants to leave Carole Nash, policy has gone up & this time it can't be negociated back down, but he doesn't want to pay penalty/exit fee's because the broker moved him onto a paperless policy without his knowledge & he's missed deadlines. Simple enough.That crazy wall of text is to make sure all the details are in, I come from a legal background where the devil was in the detail, but hey if y'all can't be bothered to read it why bother posting. Nice welcomes.
Unless you deny having agreed to auto renewal, then the policy auto-renewed. You need to pay it, or cancel the policy and pay the contract rate for doing so.
I have thought someone who professes to come from a legal background would understand that :cool:0 -
Benight my legal background was Employment law, but hey thanks for the snark, and you completely missed the main point. John DID NOT OPT to go paperless which is what the broker is trying to claim. His communication preferences were paper/letter/text, they only have his email because of the last time a policy had to be revised, not as the main form of communication, and he most definately never agreed to go paperless with the finanace company. Even when a policy is going to be auto renewed you still have to be notified, by a means of comminication AGREED upon, not forced on you without your knowledge.0
-
That crazy wall of text is to make sure all the details are in, I come from a legal background where the devil was in the detail, but hey if y'all can't be bothered to read it why bother posting. Nice welcomes.
A crazy wall of text puts people OFF reading it. Your legal background (or otherwise) is irrelevant ... YOU are the one seeking help, so help people to help you. As you seemed unwilling to do so yourself, I actually helped you by breaking it up for you. Thanks for your thanks.
0 -
^ THIS.Despite auto renewal agreed, OP claims not to have agreed to renewal without their express permission.
OP denies receiving the renewal notification as they failed to read their emails. They accept an email was sent, but they did not read it. They claim no permission to communicate to them via email exists.
Which begs the following questions from me.
How/why did CN obtain OP's email address if that was not an agreed form of communication?
"I didn't read the email you sent to the address I gave you" is a lousy excuse in 2019. If he wants to be primarily paper-based, in this day and age, he's going to need to go old-school and not give an email address at all. If he gives an email address, it's his responsibility to check it.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 347.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 251.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 451.8K Spending & Discounts
- 239.5K Work, Benefits & Business
- 615.4K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 175.1K Life & Family
- 252.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards