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Is this worth fighting? PPS Helston

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,878 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    The site is owned freehold by Cornwall Council and was rented on a 99-year lease to South Kerrier Alliance Community Interest Company on 4 May 2018.
    I attach a copy of the lease, this contains details of any restrictions and clauses with relation to the property.
    Might be useful clauses in there?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • didgeridoooo
    didgeridoooo Posts: 366 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 19 November 2019 at 4:31PM
    I just added the two links above. Those are the useful docs, perhaps!

    I scanned (Control-F cattle market) and there are references but the dates don't seem helpful to me, on quick look the TMO has expired. But I will have time to look properly later, although I am not confident of being able to understand it too well thus far
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • I can't find anything of use in the documents. Thie picture below seems the most relevant part, in case this has any positive bearing on my case? It is from the brochure, Cornwall Council own the freedhold to the land.
    Thanks

    Screen-Shot-2019-12-18-at-15-08-29.png
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,878 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    The Council cannot operate its land under contract law, and they should know that.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Thanks CM. Could you elaborate at all please?
    My understanding is that the company (so called charity) who leased the land from the Council, they are the ones who operate the car park under contract law, so I don't think this can be an argument in my defence unless you think it can?
    Thanks again
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,878 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I think if the land is provided by/owned by the Council you can interpret that site as 'not relevant land'. Read the Guidance on section 56 of the POFA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I will do that, thanks CM.
    Sounds like I really will have to 'lead' the Truro judge!
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • I read all the Guidance as advised, thanks CM.
    This is the only part which seems relevant, and it does seem to suggest you're right. I wonder if my defence could pivot around this, unless they could argue the Council don't "provide or control" the land in question. In short, is sub-leasing it to a private firm what a Judge would consider "providing"? I would hope so, certainly worth a shot. Thanks very much for the heads up


    Screen-Shot-2019-12-20-at-14-01-19.png
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,878 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I wonder if my defence could pivot around this, unless they could argue the Council don't "provide or control" the land in question.
    You can cover that too. Search the forum for Kent Ombudsman and read the full report that forced Kent Council to stop a private firm issuing fake PCNs like this. In that report from Jan 2019, the Ombudsman specifically considered whether it was relevant if a council actually 'enforce' parking on the land with a Traffic Order, or not, and the Ombudsman's view was that the land remains 'not relevant land' either way, just because it is Council owned/provided.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I saw the email alert for the topic update, and I instantly said to myself "It's Mad-O'clock" so I knew it would be you :D !!
    Excellent, thank you SO much for this help. I will do just as you said. I quite fancy delivering this point, will get very conversant with all the details, as well as wearing my Perry Mason suit :D
    Thanks again CM, you're a glittering diamond in a sea of PPC crap and slime.

    PS I have no idea why but my "Thank You" button often refuses to work
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
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