Is this worth fighting? PPS Helston

didgeridoooo

"Please accept this as a request for public information, NOT a request under FOIA. I have a right to sight of the information below without undue delay. Kindly forward the information requested below. If you deem any of the points below to be covered exclusive by FOIA, kindly let me know so I can submit a fresh request without it. I accept and understand your explanation below as to how it could be misconstrued that you are avoiding a route to complaints, it could also be construed (and is) that your refusal to separate out the non-FOIA items from my list, after having been requested to do so by me, the requestor, is similarly an attempt at denying me my right to public information in a timely manner.

1. A copy of the Parking Places Order that used to apply to Cattle Market Car Park, Helston. (This is a legal document and will be on file.)

2. Has that Parking Places Order been revoked? If so, I need to know when it was revoked.

3. Was the parking operated on a 'decriminalised basis’ under the Traffic Management Act when the Council operated the car park, or were byelaws or Excess Charges applied instead? (This relates to the legal means by which the Council could enforce parking rules at the site, again I suspect your legal department could answer this easily.)

4. When was the site sold, transferred or leased and does the Council in fact still own the site? (I can’t think of any way to make this clearer.)

5. A copy of the lease, sale document or transfer deed, including any clauses or restrictions or covenants about a third party operating a private car park there. (Clear as a bell again. If the Council sold, transferred or leased the land/site to another entity, that will be covered by formal documents, and as the Council is funded purely from money raised from taxation, such documents should be available for scrutiny/viewing by any citizen.)"

Coupon-mad

Well done.

Split the FOI away from the normal queries that they should answer this week.

didgeridoooo

Yes, I don't expect many people to like my attitude towards him, but with a lifetime of experience of these Jobsworths, I really have no time for them, especially when being devious like this. "We did it to protect your channel for complaints..." - "Yeah, well right now you doing that stops me getting what you KNOW I want, so pull your finger out and pull the other one, there's bells on it"

Funny, but the responses slowed down now. Maybe he is ACTUALLY doing something instead of talking about ways to avoid doing so! I think there's a bit of "that's another department" going on. I did get the FOIA confirmation, so they obviously hoped to pass the buck and throw it under the FOIA banner to let them get back to eating cakes and making social justice posts on Twitter.

neerggerm

I had an ANPR from this same car park dated April 5th. I did not receive a NTK in the post and have only managed to get one by emailing PPS for SAR. They say they sent one at the time but the first I heard was the BW Legal letters, so now I have to go to court.

Your wife is right, it definitely used to be an attendant on foot and people regularly used to pay when they arrived. Also, I think there used to be a 'phone and pay' app or similar which you could use if you had no change. Some time recently (i'm guessing beginning of the year perhaps as I didn't notice it happening either) it changed to ANPR and the app changed to RingGo (which is a pile of **** and the main point of my defence - I was unable to pay because it saved a very old VRN of mine and my mum's and didn't allow me to add another). Lots of people drive through the car park and park in the cattle market for classes etc for free so I just don't understand how ANPR works for this site. Perhaps your wife could say that's what she did? Can they prove that the car was stationary in the paid-for car park, could she have just driven through to the cattle market and stayed there for the two hours?

Also - watch out for artificially inflated fees (search abuse of process on here) if it does eventually go through BW legal, they bumped my costs up to £239...

I know a few people who have been caught here recently so i'm assuming the changes weren't well 'advertised'.

didgeridoooo

Hi, thanks for that. Yes she has gone through this car park exactly as you said, at least a few times. I don't personally know the place as I never seem to leave my office (at home)! By the time this reaches court, I am sure all memories will be hazy, so I hope they have photopgraphic evidence of parking by her vehicle.
They are a shower of absolute swines. ONE sign saying NEW MANAGEMENT - NOW USING ANPR TO ISSUE TICKETS - This would never have happened and I am sure many other people have already paid up these ridiculous speculative invoices. Grr. keep in touch about your case. Maybe we could trade - 'expert witnesses'

Edwin1978

Hi

This is my 1st post and hopefully not repeating all that goes before me.

I parked at my brother in laws a few months back, the parking bay across had only just been completed and had no signage on it. He assumed this mean't it was a visitor bay and ok to park. However, a week later i received a PCN with a £60 charge (payable in 14 days). I contested on the lack of signage but failed.

I've since gone through IAS but still had claim refused. The strength of my case was enhanced as UK CPM now have signage directly on the bay when this wasn't there at the time of the alleged offence. Personally I believe this highlights the firms obvious oversight.

Is it worth continuing my appeal, go through Popla or pay up??

Thanks

Ed

PS also should they have put verification number on it so that I can appeal via Popola or did they leave it off so i went to IAS??

Umkomaas

Edwin1978 wrote: »

Hi

This is my 1st post and hopefully not repeating all that goes before me.

I parked at my brother in laws a few months back, the parking bay across had only just been completed and had no signage on it. He assumed this mean't it was a visitor bay and ok to park. However, a week later i received a PCN with a £60 charge (payable in 14 days). I contested on the lack of signage but failed.

I've since gone through IAS but still had claim refused. The strength of my case was enhanced as UK CPM now have signage directly on the bay when this wasn't there at the time of the alleged offence. Personally I believe this highlights the firms obvious oversight.

Is it worth continuing my appeal, go through Popla or pay up??

Thanks

Ed

PS also should they have put verification number on it so that I can appeal via Popola or did they leave it off so i went to IAS??

Is this anything at all related to Premier Parking Solutions or Helston Coronation Park?

Edwin1978

No sorry have I added to the wrong thread??

Le_Kirk

Edwin1978 wrote: »

No sorry have I added to the wrong thread??

Yes, see the reply on the other thread you hi-jacked!

didgeridoooo

Well the gob5hite at the Council never replied to me. but the FOIA request was delivered on today.

I have had a quick look but working at the moment so will read in detail later, although I am not sure I can decipher the relevant info out of it but will definitely try. This could be useful docs for other forum members so it might be worth keeping a copy somewhere in case of Helston Cattle Market Car Park issues in future. Here is the Council's response:

"Request:
1. A copy of the Parking Places Order that used to apply to Cattle Market Car Park, Helston.
2. Has that Parking Places Order been revoked? If so, I need to know when it was revoked.
3. Was the parking operated on a 'decriminalised basis’ under the Traffic Management Act when the Council operated the car park, or were byelaws or Excess Charges applied instead?
4. When was the site sold, transferred or leased and does the Council in fact still own the site?
5. A copy of the lease, sale document or transfer deed, including any clauses or restrictions or covenants about a third party operating a private car park there.

Response:
Please see attached the final parking order that applied to Helston Cattle Marked.
The car park was revoked from Cornwall Council’s Parking Order on 1st April 2018 when the 2017 Parking Order was revoked and replaced by the 2018 Parking Order, following public consultation.
The car park was run under TMA up until its revocation from Cornwall Council’s parking orders upon its transfer.
The site is owned freehold by Cornwall Council and was rented on a 99-year lease to South Kerrier Alliance Community Interest Company on 4 May 2018.
I attach a copy of the lease, this contains details of any restrictions and clauses with relation to the property.
Information provided by: Transport and Infrastructure
Date of response: 19/11/2019"

There were two file attachments:

https://ln2.sync.com/dl/4622416e0/fzatnmyd-rsm62q9h-9jvmq6q7-ts8jaka9

https://ln2.sync.com/dl/de505bc50/r5kqtbfh-nw4fydre-w78njyp4-q8bueuuz