UK parking patrol/ BW legal

moneylion

Hi guys
Thanks very much for all your advice and helping many from these scammers. I have followed the advice as post 2 on the sticky. First post here but have been reading with interest over the last couple of years. I am now in receipt of a Claim form from BW legal via the County Courts Business centre Northampton.

Story so far:
The driver overstayed the Wembley Retail Park by 10 mins and 37 seconds(!!) in February 2018 - owner of the retail park is Quentain Ltd (found this out by FOI request to Brent council). I have done the following:

• Sent the generic cease or desist letter which was rejected by UK parking patrol (IAS governed)
• They have breached their own code of conduct as the overstay was for 10mins and driver should have gotten grace period but it was not
• ignored all their letters and drivel since then from every debt collector types that they use
• when we I got the letter before claim (July 2019), asked for a SAR from UK parking patrol - have not received a reply to this this so complained to the ICO. Also BW legal did not put the case on hold as requested and also as expected
• Contacted my local MP who was actually quite proactive but a certain Mr Cheetham was less than forthcoming with the information requested
• I have written to Lidl and Quintain they have refused to get the fake charge cancelled

I am now at the stage where I will do the AoS to the claim form as advised on the sticky. It was issued on 11 October so 16 October plus 14 days would be my deadline?

I will draft up my defence and post it on here. I was going for the inadequate signage route. Would them not complying with their own code of conduct also be a relevant defence point. If the overstay was 10 min and 37 secs (measured by ANPR), it does not constitute actually parking .. and 37 secs over the grace should not be enough for them to hang their claim on?!

The car park is very poorly designed - it is constantly overcrowded and blocked by trailers and the like as happened on the day so this fake charge was pretty cheeky anyway.

The total of all the charges includes a fake £60 included in the amount claimed plus £50 legal, reps fees (??), £25 court fees and interest all totalling to £24x.xx claimed.

Can I ask after how long from the defence would the court case actually be assigned and placed ( is it a matter of days or months or even years?)

All help will be much appreciated.

thanks

Fruitcake

Waiting or driving around looking for a space is not parking as the judge in this case ruled.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

Post #67 of this thread on pepipoo might help as well.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=107786&st=60&start=60

Get pics of the site and signage as soon as possible. Images taken on a busy day would help.

Was this a free car park with time limit or a P & D car park?

In order to get the scamlicitors to pause proceedings you need to tell them that although you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and therefore require them to stop processing their claim for one month.

Have you checked with the local council that the scammers have planning permission for scameras and advertising consent for signs? Not having the latter is a criminal offence.

moneylion

Great thanks for the quick reply.

Its a time limited free car park and not P and D.
Cool will go there again and take some pictures and videos of the chaos that ensues there as it is fairly regular. Does it also help that a lot of signs in the car park are in a right state with graffiti and mismatched stickers laid on to them (and some fallen away?) - i have collected pictures of those as well .

Thanks for the link re the not parking.

Also can I ask, is this all relevant (i.e. pictures, videos) at the defence stage or the witness statement stage?

Ah right - i didnt ask re seeking debt advice ... can I/ should I do it now i.e. will it strengthen the case?

Fruitcake

I have added a bit more to my previous post.

Anything that shows the signs are inadequate and incapable of forming a contract are useful. Damaged, unreadable (wholly or partly), small font that cannot be read from a moving vehicle, contradictory, high up on poles, obscured by foliage or other vehicles. Get as many pics as possible including the entrance/entrances. Use the ones that best help your case.

The guide to court written by bargepole in post 2 of the NEWBIES will answer your questions about what to do and when.

Telling the scamlicitors the bit about seeking debt advice is a tool to get you extra time for your research, so you should use it.

moneylion

Awesome cheers. Will read Bargepole's guide to court again.

With regards to the scamsolicitors (haha), its been more than a month before they filed this claim. so should i go back with this - will it give me more time?

And yes through the FOI, i checked with the council whether they have planning permission for the signs and scameras (haha) and the council said they do although did not provide any further information of how or when.

Surely these guys should be seeing the difficult cases who are going to fightback and just give up ... ?!?

beamerguy

It has become clear for some time that BWLegal do not grasp the case they are claiming for and if they did, they don't tell the rookies they send to court.

The fake £60 has become a hobby for BWL and has rubbed off on the other lemming legals

Whilst you prove your case with all the info you have, the Abuse of Process is very important and must be highlighted to the judge.
Especially on what Authority do BWLegal have to add amounts contrary to the law and the Beavis case

Ralph-y

"I have written to Lidl and Quintain they have refused to get the fake charge cancelled"


where you shopping in Lidl? who did you contact at Lidl?



re grace periods ..... there are two one reading signs and finding a place to park .... second time given to leave the car park.



so from now on please all ways talk about grace periods(S)



Ralph:cool:

moneylion

beamerguy wrote: »

The fake £60 has become a hobby for BWL and has rubbed off on the other lemming legals
Whilst you prove your case with all the info you have, the Abuse of Process is very important and must be highlighted to the judge.
Especially on what Authority do BWLegal have to add amounts contrary to the law and the Beavis case

thanks yes I am drafting my defence now and will be adding these sections in particularly the advice you have given to lots of other people re the abuse of process.

Ralph-y wrote: »

"I have written to Lidl and Quintain they have refused to get the fake charge cancelled"


where you shopping in Lidl? who did you contact at Lidl?

The Lidl manager who was useless and said as a tenant of the carpark they couldnt do anything - went there twice. Then Lidl customer service by email and phone - again they said to follow the amazing process highlighted by UK parking patrol. Finally the Lidl CEO - again same issue. To be fair, I havent done it again since these court claim forms landed... wonder if I should give it a go again (since its a 18 months since the first attempt)

Ralph-y wrote: »

re grace periods ..... there are two one reading signs and finding a place to park .... second time given to leave the car park.



so from now on please all ways talk about grace periods(S)



Ralph:cool:

Oh geez - I didnt realise this ... there are multiple grace periodS?!? .. in which case they dont have a leg to stand on surely not withstanding that the car was not parked in the time period that they claim anyway.

Fruitcake

moneylion wrote: »

thanks yes I am drafting my defence now and will be adding these sections in particularly the advice you have given to lots of other people re the abuse of process.


The Lidl manager who was useless and said as a tenant of the carpark they couldnt do anything - went there twice. Then Lidl customer service by email and phone - again they said to follow the amazing process highlighted by UK parking patrol. Finally the Lidl CEO - again same issue. To be fair, I havent done it again since these court claim forms landed... wonder if I should give it a go again (since its a 18 months since the first attempt)




Oh geez - I didnt realise this ... there are multiple grace periodS?!? .. in which case they dont have a leg to stand on surely not withstanding that the car was not parked in the time period that they claim anyway.

Not if the contract/signs say otherwise, and not if they are IPC members. Is the name of the company you are dealing with UK Parking Patrol, or is the word Office at the end of the name?

moneylion

hi fruitcake.. yes it is UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd and they are IPC 'regulated'
the signs do not mention grace period(s) at all ... it's the IPC code of conduct which has the 10 minutes in them which obviously is just worth as much as IPC is (nothing) according to them.

Fruitcake

moneylion wrote: »

hi fruitcake.. yes it is UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd and they are IPC 'regulated'
the signs do not mention grace period(s) at all ... it's the IPC code of conduct which has the 10 minutes in them which obviously is just worth as much as IPC is (nothing) according to them.

You need to concentrate therefore on the fact that the grace period only applies to the parking period, not the driving within the car park. Stress how long it took to find a parking space before parking and therefore before the grace period began.
Then state how long it took to get out, locate and read the signs, and decide to stay.
At the end of the parking period, state how long it then took for the driver drive to the exit whilst negotiating all the other traffic and pedestrians and then finally leave the car park.

Break it up into small chunks to explain each part thus making the actual stay within the permitted parking period and less than the permitted grace period.