Netflix and Natwest fraud

AnnoyedNetflixUser

First time poster, please be gentle!

I realised on Friday that Netflix have been taking 2 payments, one from my debit card (Natwest) and the other from my credit card. Over the months, I would scroll by my online banking for Natwest and see "Netflix.com NL" payments and think to myself "yes, I pay for that" and scroll to the next items.

When I called Netflix support, after a few mins confirming details, the rep did confirm the other account was fraudulent based on 'an unusual email address consisting of numbers and characters and a forgien IP address used to access the account'. Netflix blocked the account and blacklisted my debit card and offered a 3 month refund (3x £11.99 for the Ultra HD subscription! We are using the HD sub as Sky fibre can't keep up with UHD Streaming but that's another grumble)

At the end of the call to Netflix, the rep suggested I should go to my bank to claim the remainder of the refund. So I visited the Crystal Peaks Natwest branch in Sheffield on my lunch and they told me there is nothing they can do at the branch and gave me a business card with the Natwest Visa Dispute team.

Called them last night and they said, there's nothing they can do and forwarded me on to the Fraud Team. The first lady I spoke to said as it's been going on for longer than 13 months there is "nothing they can do" as it is outside the T&Cs for the basic Natwest account.

So after a bit of research and some venting to family, I called the Natwest fraud team again armed with the T&C's for my account as I do not believe I "intentionally or with gross negligence" fail to inform the bank as I presumed the payments being made were indeed for my Netflix account. The bloke was a bit more understanding this time, but he said now that Netflix have issued a partial refund, they are now liable for the full amount stolen from my account.

So I spoke to Netflix again, and to sum up a 20min conversation which I recorded, their system only allows 3 months refund and they emailed a PDF which I have to take to a police station so the police can investigate! I think this a complete waste of police resources to be completely honest.

I have pdf's of all the payments taken by Netflix starting from April 2018 to September 2019 as wel as access to the fraudulent account. Looking at the watch history is full of tv shows and films I would never watch and profiles on that account with names I don't recognise.

I have sumitted a form to ActionFraud last night.

Could anyone offer some advice or guidance on how to proceed now? I was planning on calling the bank again at lunchtime - how can I convince the bank to raise a fraud investigation and/or refund my money?

neilmcl

I don't think the fact Netflix have given you a goodwill payment makes them in anyway responsible for for a full refund, it's not their fault for the fraud. I'd still continue speaking to Natwest but I'm afraid there's probably not much they can or will do as there's no evidence of how and where this fraudster got your bank details from in the first place.

AnnoyedNetflixUser

Hi neilmcl,

My argument to Neflix is they had a UK registered VISA card being accessed solely from a foreign IP address and has never been accessed from the UK until last night where I obtained access to the account - why wasn't this caught by their internal fraud team?

Natwest's bank reps aren't making too much of an impression on resolving the fact that money that has been stolen from my account and the lack of action in cancelling my card and refunding my money only adds to the sting.

JJ_Egan

Are you saying every transaction should be checked for IP address ?

AnnoyedNetflixUser

I'm merely suggesting they have records spanning over a year showing a UK registered debit card being charged to an account accessed solely from a non UK IP address which was not picked up by their internal fraud team.

[Deleted User]

AnnoyedNetflixUser wrote: »

First time poster, please be gentle!

I realised on Friday that Netflix have been taking 2 payments, one from my debit card (Natwest) and the other from my credit card. Over the months, I would scroll by my online banking for Natwest and see "Netflix.com NL" payments and think to myself "yes, I pay for that" and scroll to the next items.

When I called Netflix support, after a few mins confirming details, the rep did confirm the other account was fraudulent based on 'an unusual email address consisting of numbers and characters and a forgien IP address used to access the account'. Netflix blocked the account and blacklisted my debit card and offered a 3 month refund (3x £11.99 for the Ultra HD subscription! We are using the HD sub as Sky fibre can't keep up with UHD Streaming but that's another grumble)

At the end of the call to Netflix, the rep suggested I should go to my bank to claim the remainder of the refund. So I visited the Crystal Peaks Natwest branch in Sheffield on my lunch and they told me there is nothing they can do at the branch and gave me a business card with the Natwest Visa Dispute team.

Called them last night and they said, there's nothing they can do and forwarded me on to the Fraud Team. The first lady I spoke to said as it's been going on for longer than 13 months there is "nothing they can do" as it is outside the T&Cs for the basic Natwest account.

So after a bit of research and some venting to family, I called the Natwest fraud team again armed with the T&C's for my account as I do not believe I "intentionally or with gross negligence" fail to inform the bank as I presumed the payments being made were indeed for my Netflix account. The bloke was a bit more understanding this time, but he said now that Netflix have issued a partial refund, they are now liable for the full amount stolen from my account.

So I spoke to Netflix again, and to sum up a 20min conversation which I recorded, their system only allows 3 months refund and they emailed a PDF which I have to take to a police station so the police can investigate! I think this a complete waste of police resources to be completely honest.

I have pdf's of all the payments taken by Netflix starting from April 2018 to September 2019 as wel as access to the fraudulent account. Looking at the watch history is full of tv shows and films I would never watch and profiles on that account with names I don't recognise.

I have sumitted a form to ActionFraud last night.

Could anyone offer some advice or guidance on how to proceed now? I was planning on calling the bank again at lunchtime - how can I convince the bank to raise a fraud investigation and/or refund my money?

I think you'll find that Netflix have refunded the 3 payments as a goodwill gesture, not as any admission of guilt and it's certainly not their responsibility to monitor your bank accounts.

I called the Natwest fraud team again armed with the T&C's for my account as I do not believe I "intentionally or with gross negligence" fail to inform the bank as I presumed the payments being made were indeed for my Netflix account.

Unfortunately it is gross negligence as the payments have been coming out for 17 months and you've not noticed. It was your mistaken presumption, nobody elses.

I'm guessing you have gone back through all of your bank records to look for other dodgy payments?

Be grateful for the £36 or so you've got back and learn from the mistake.

TadleyBaggie

I suspect it's not unusual, many people will use VPN software to mask their true location when trying to access content their native location doesn't allow, e.g. appear to be in the US because the US version has different content.

GDB2222

I don't see any issue here. Netflix have been taking money from one of your accounts without your authorisation. Of course they are liable to return it. The fact that they have been scammed is their issue. Cut and dried.

unforeseen

TadleyBaggie wrote: »

I suspect it's not unusual, many people will use VPN software to mask their true location when trying to access content their native location doesn't allow, e.g. appear to be in the US because the US version has different content.

ISTR in one of the VPN threads on Hot UK Deals that subscription through a Turkish IP was cheaper and gave a better choice of contact.

AnnoyedNetflixUser

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

I think you'll find that Netflix have refunded the 3 payments as a goodwill gesture, not as any admission of guilt and it's certainly not their responsibility to monitor your bank accounts.

The 2 reps I spoke with at Netflix stated 3 months is the maximum amount they can refund on by their system and to recover the remainder from my bank. They have admitted it was a fraudulent account.

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

Unfortunately it is gross negligence as the payments have been coming out for 17 months and you've not noticed. It was your mistaken presumption, nobody elses.

I knowingly have a Netflix account, therefore I would reasonably assume I would have to pay for the Netflix subscription and then see payments to Netflix on my bank statement? I don't mean to sound argumentative, I don't believe I have acted negligently as this is an expected expense?

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

I'm guessing you have gone back through all of your bank records to look for other dodgy payments?

Most of them appear legitimate, the odd one appears dodgy, but I've looked through a list online of merchants using abbreviated descriptions etc which do match the sites used or products purchased (takeaways, other online purchases etc).

SHAFT

AnnoyedNetflixUser wrote: »

First time poster, please be gentle!

I realised on Friday that Netflix have been taking 2 payments, one from my debit card (Natwest) and the other from my credit card. Over the months, I would scroll by my online banking for Natwest and see "Netflix.com NL" payments and think to myself "yes, I pay for that" and scroll to the next items.

When I called Netflix support, after a few mins confirming details, the rep did confirm the other account was fraudulent based on 'an unusual email address consisting of numbers and characters and a forgien IP address used to access the account'. Netflix blocked the account and blacklisted my debit card and offered a 3 month refund (3x £11.99 for the Ultra HD subscription! We are using the HD sub as Sky fibre can't keep up with UHD Streaming but that's another grumble)

At the end of the call to Netflix, the rep suggested I should go to my bank to claim the remainder of the refund. So I visited the Crystal Peaks Natwest branch in Sheffield on my lunch and they told me there is nothing they can do at the branch and gave me a business card with the Natwest Visa Dispute team.

Called them last night and they said, there's nothing they can do and forwarded me on to the Fraud Team. The first lady I spoke to said as it's been going on for longer than 13 months there is "nothing they can do" as it is outside the T&Cs for the basic Natwest account.

So after a bit of research and some venting to family, I called the Natwest fraud team again armed with the T&C's for my account as I do not believe I "intentionally or with gross negligence" fail to inform the bank as I presumed the payments being made were indeed for my Netflix account. The bloke was a bit more understanding this time, but he said now that Netflix have issued a partial refund, they are now liable for the full amount stolen from my account.

So I spoke to Netflix again, and to sum up a 20min conversation which I recorded, their system only allows 3 months refund and[/B] they emailed a PDF which I have to take to a police station so the police can investigate! [/B]I think this a complete waste of police resources to be completely honest.

I have pdf's of all the payments taken by Netflix starting from April 2018 to September 2019 as wel as access to the fraudulent account. Looking at the watch history is full of tv shows and films I would never watch and profiles on that account with names I don't recognise.

I have sumitted a form to ActionFraud last night.

Could anyone offer some advice or guidance on how to proceed now? I was planning on calling the bank again at lunchtime - how can I convince the bank to raise a fraud investigation and/or refund my money?

All a bit of a waste of time if the suspect isn't in the UK.