Do you refuse to pay on card under a certain amount?

20SmthngSver

I don't use a debit card and I only use a credit card for purchases of £100+ or online. I shake my head when I see people using their card for silly small amounts.

Unnecessarily spending on your card to get 5p reward from the bank is silly too, undoubtedly you will use your card more than you would.

People don't realise that all retailers have to pay a fee to accept payment by card. We don't accept payment by card for under £30 or above £500, and even then that's only if someone has no other way to pay which doesn't cost us more the higher the value. Else it's cheque or transfer as it's free to us.

More people are withdrawing cash weekly. It works, once your wallet is empty, that's it! Don't need an app on your phone to tell you that you're spending 'too much.'

JuicyJesus

20SmthngSver wrote: »

Unnecessarily spending on your card to get 5p reward from the bank is silly too, undoubtedly you will use your card more than you would.

Why would "using my card more" be a negative thing if I'm spending the same amount of money?

5p reward adds up and is literally infinitely better than no 5p reward.

People don't realise that all retailers have to pay a fee to accept payment by card.

Actually we do and we also know that it costs businesses money to bank cash, and furthermore that the convenience of accepting card will (and demonstrably does) attract more customers to a business that takes cards than a cash-only one.

And, ultimately, I don't care, because it benefits me. I get money back, I can pay for stuff with my phone rather than having to carry my wallet around and I don't have to carry cash or stand in the p*ssing rain getting money out of a hole in the wall. Those to me are two concrete benefits of me using my card. If a shop wants my money then they can take cards. If they don't then they can have their silly moral stand, but they won't get my money.

We don't accept payment by card for under £30 or above £500, and even then that's only if someone has no other way to pay which doesn't cost us more the higher the value. Else it's cheque or transfer as it's free to us.

If I went into a shop and they said they wouldn't take cards under £30 I'd do a 180 and leave. That's absurd. I can just about understand not taking them under a fiver but £30 is ridiculous. They'd just be making my (their putative customer's) life less convenient.

More people are withdrawing cash weekly. It works, once your wallet is empty, that's it! Don't need an app on your phone to tell you that you're spending 'too much.'

But I can use the app on my phone to tell me that I'm spending too much so I'm not sure why that's bad... unless you just think "cash good electronic bad" on some moral level?

eskbanker

20SmthngSver wrote: »

More people are withdrawing cash weekly.

What support do you claim for this assertion, which flies in the face of the widely-published facts about the ongoing decline in the use of cash, such as UK Finance's analysis of 2018 payment methods?

20SmthngSver

colsten wrote: »

It never even occurred to me to refuse to pay by card. What would be the reason for doing so?

I am an Apple Pay fan, and I really value that I don't have to lug cards, and god forbid, cash around.

Many shops already accept Apple Pay without limits, and I try to avoid those who don't, and certainly those who don't take contactless, or who have a minimum amount for cards. I have several cards enabled on my watch, so if one fails for any reason (e.g. card provider blocks for security reasons), I just use another one. I wear my watch every waking hour, not just for time but also for gathering health and exercise data, for listening to music, for receiving and sending messages and for making calls, incl 999 in emergencies. Using it also to make payments is just logical, and has been second nature for a few years now. Oh, and I also have all my loyalty cards (Tesco, Waitrose, JL, Nectar, Boots, M&S and a ton of others) on the watch, too.

You could argue a watch is expensive - it is, on the face of it, but I am getting tremendous value out of it and it's worth every penny to me. You can also get most of the benefits from just a smartphone, which is a somewhat cheaper yet less convenient option.

All cards are, naturally, paid off in full each month

Isn't it slightly oxymoronic that you don't get why people refuse payment by card (it's quite obvious that a lot of small retailers can't afford to pay the fees they incur and don't pass onto you) but you avoid places which don't accept Apple Pay? Seems a bit strange! The thought of only carrying my phone to pay and no cards or cash is extremely odd to me. Lose your phone, break it, stolen, run out of battery, you're screwed.

stripeyfox

20SmthngSver wrote: »

I don't use a debit card and I only use a credit card for purchases of £100+ or online. I shake my head when I see people using their card for silly small amounts.

Unnecessarily spending on your card to get 5p reward from the bank is silly too, undoubtedly you will use your card more than you would.

People don't realise that all retailers have to pay a fee to accept payment by card. We don't accept payment by card for under £30 or above £500, and even then that's only if someone has no other way to pay which doesn't cost us more the higher the value. Else it's cheque or transfer as it's free to us.

More people are withdrawing cash weekly. It works, once your wallet is empty, that's it! Don't need an app on your phone to tell you that you're spending 'too much.'

Well that's one way of looking at it. I pay for practically everything on my Monzo card regardless of amount. It works for me, and stops me being tempted to buy stuff at work with cash (like from the butty wagon outside).

I know retailers get charged for transactions but it also costs money to count cash and bank it too. Whilst it is possible retailers may "lose" out on some small transactions overall surely they just build it in as an overhead.

I certianly wouldn't want to shop anywhere which insisted on refusing my card.

20SmthngSver

eskbanker wrote: »

What support do you claim for this assertion, which flies in the face of the widely-published facts about the ongoing decline in the use of cash, such as UK Finance's analysis of 2018 payment methods?

Not just here but also in the U.S. You've quoted a statistic that is tracked. You're not including stats about the cash in the country which is not accounted for or declared and passed around in the economy. I see people withdrawing cash more so now than I did a few years ago, people are becoming disillusioned with digital hype and are realsing that actually cash is better for control and budgeting.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds

https://www.paymentsjournal.com/cash-and-digital-payment-methods-can-coexist/ (U.S.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49894029 (Published last week, Cash still second highest method, more people pay with cash than Contactless) Link would also not be investing in this new service if there wasn't a demand for cash.

Hope this helps.

20SmthngSver

stripeyfox wrote: »

Well that's one way of looking at it. I pay for practically everything on my Monzo card regardless of amount. It works for me, and stops me being tempted to buy stuff at work with cash (like from the butty wagon outside).

I know retailers get charged for transactions but it also costs money to count cash and bank it too. Whilst it is possible retailers may "lose" out on some small transactions overall surely they just build it in as an overhead.

I certianly wouldn't want to shop anywhere which insisted on refusing my card.

Cash does the same for me, when it's gone it's gone. Still can't use a card. I wouldn't be tempted by the bacon sandwich van outside anyway so I'm safe! Lol.

In reality, big retailers wouldn't refuse cards, but smaller ones and indepedents often do. They are working to smaller margins and profits and relatively higher costs as a result, and it does make such a difference. It can cost a lot of money to accept card payments. Added to having to pay a fee per incoming card receipt (as a few banks do) means they pay twice to accept the payment, whereas cash or transfers or cheque is none or once. Further, a lot of businesses dealing in cash probably aren't decalring all of it either...

We had a customer who wanted to put £1,800.00 on a card, and we refused it. It would have cost us £60-£70 to accept it which would have eaten into the already not so big profit margin. We said transfer or cheque, he did a transfer, and it cost us nothing and we maintained modest profit margin.

I've been refused a card before and it doesn't bother me all. Lots of cafes and smaller shops have signs up saying no card payment under £5, £10, £15 etc, as the fees added up can be a lot. I have no issue. Those on this thread who do don't appreciate or care about how they businesses operate and survive, they are only interested in what works for them which is very narrow sighted really.

But then again, there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see...

20SmthngSver

:T

JuicyJesus wrote: »

Why would "using my card more" be a negative thing if I'm spending the same amount of money?

5p reward adds up and is literally infinitely better than no 5p reward.



Actually we do and we also know that it costs businesses money to bank cash, and furthermore that the convenience of accepting card will (and demonstrably does) attract more customers to a business that takes cards than a cash-only one.

And, ultimately, I don't care, because it benefits me. I get money back, I can pay for stuff with my phone rather than having to carry my wallet around and I don't have to carry cash or stand in the p*ssing rain getting money out of a hole in the wall. Those to me are two concrete benefits of me using my card. If a shop wants my money then they can take cards. If they don't then they can have their silly moral stand, but they won't get my money.



If I went into a shop and they said they wouldn't take cards under £30 I'd do a 180 and leave. That's absurd. I can just about understand not taking them under a fiver but £30 is ridiculous. They'd just be making my (their putative customer's) life less convenient.



But I can use the app on my phone to tell me that I'm spending too much so I'm not sure why that's bad... unless you just think "cash good electronic bad" on some moral level?

Well of course of if you need the extra 5p then that's up to you. I didn't say you wasn't allowed to do it lol. Businesses are charged regardless of transaction method, cards are not excluded. In fact, it can cost more, as you pay the card terminal fee and some banks charge a card receipt fee too, depending on what kind of plan you're on. It's a double charge.


I didn't mention that we are not a retail shop, so we can say if we don't accept cards or refuse it for certain transaction. We've never had an issue, and no one has ever said they had an issue. In fact, they've agreed and said they will pay by other means. We don't even charge another business a fee when they pay on a business debit or credit card even though we are allowed to.


You can think it's absurd, but if you run a smaller business with high rates and costs and you're hit with fees you can avoid or reduce, perhaps you would understand. If you do, then it's questionable if you are making the right costings choices. A lot of people don't need an app to tell them they are spending 'too much' either. It's a silly reliance tbh and rules your life. I can't think when I've ever even stood at an ATM in the rain... bit of a non-starter really. Lol. You're clearly someone who only wants convenience on your part, isn't life about compromise?

JuicyJesus

20SmthngSver wrote: »

:T

Well of course of if you need the extra 5p then that's up to you. I didn't say you wasn't allowed to do it lol. Businesses are charged regardless of transaction method, cards are not excluded. In fact, it can cost more, as you pay the card terminal fee and some banks charge a card receipt fee too, depending on what kind of plan you're on. It's a double charge.

I know that card terminals charge. Meanwhile your bank account will charge you to pay in cash, usually around 1.5% of any amount deposited, possibly more, and with cheques costing you too. But then, you are of course aware that taking cards will by and large get you more business as it becomes easier to pay you.

I didn't mention that we are not a retail shop, so we can say if we don't accept cards or refuse it for certain transaction.

Then that still seems odd to me, but is a bit more understandable if you're doing purely B2B. In retail, people would walk away.

You can think it's absurd, but if you run a smaller business with high rates and costs and you're hit with fees you can avoid or reduce, perhaps you would understand. If you do, then it's questionable if you are making the right costings choices.

So all of those businesses who do take cards for sums under £30 are doing it wrong? Must go and tell some of the local independent coffee shops who are doing a thriving trade on a string of £3 card payments.

I actually can't think of any businesses that actively entirely refuse card payments around here, bar a couple of chippies, and a couple that won't accept them for under £5. The vast majority will take cards for any amount.

A lot of people don't need an app to tell them they are spending 'too much' either. It's a silly reliance tbh and rules your life.

Not really a silly reliance is it, any more than relying on getting cash out and it being "gone when it's gone" is silly. I don't do that personally but I can at least understand it and don't think people are silly for doing so.

You just seem determined to look down on anyone who doesn't live a cash-based lifestyle, which to be honest I think is more of a consideration to you than any business decisions.

I can't think when I've ever even stood at an ATM in the rain... bit of a non-starter really. Lol.

I mean if you want cash out and the ATM is outside and it's raining... but then, I can use cards and exclude the possibility entirely.

eskbanker

20SmthngSver wrote: »

Not just here but also in the U.S. You've quoted a statistic that is tracked. You're not including stats about the cash in the country which is not accounted for or declared and passed around in the economy. I see people withdrawing cash more so now than I did a few years ago, people are becoming disillusioned with digital hype and are realsing that actually cash is better for control and budgeting.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds

https://www.paymentsjournal.com/cash-and-digital-payment-methods-can-coexist/ (U.S.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49894029 (Published last week, Cash still second highest method, more people pay with cash than Contactless) Link would also not be investing in this new service if there wasn't a demand for cash.

Hope this helps.

No, it doesn't help, as you've missed the point!

I'm not saying that there isn't still plenty of use of cash, as clearly there is, but am challenging your specific assertion that it's increasing, when it obviously isn't.

On the specific metric of withdrawals, UK Finance confirms that "The total volume of cash machine withdrawals declined by 7% to 2.4 billion", while also observing that other methods of accessing cash, such as debit card cashback and counter services, have also declined.

So, it's a fact that cash usage and cash withdrawals are declining year on year, contrary to what you stated, and none of the articles you quoted actually support your misplaced opinion that cash withdrawals are increasing....