Court claim form from CCBS - VCS

theako2k

Just got out and that was an absolute shambles, I lost and now have to pay a combined £275 (2 claims).

Their rep turned up an hour late (someone called Angela Jackson) but they still let it still go ahead. By that point I'd been there 90 minutes, was dehydrated and fed up so was never going to do myself justice.

For the case I had a female deputy district judge and she was hostile from the beginning. Defence fell apart because I wouldn't say I who the driver was, the Judge said she doesn't believe I wouldn't know. As a result she said that as I couldn't prove who the driver was and where the vehicle was parked in the car park that all my evidence on signage was irrelevant. I pointed out that there are large areas of the car park where there are no signs present but as I wasn't able to say I was parked in those locations the evidence is irrelevant. Based on the claimants photos she stated that signs clearly are visible and when I pointed out that the locations don't match the site plan she again said that doesn't matter. I pointed out that the IPC code of conduct requires entrance signs, she said she can see signs at the entrance (they are barely visible and not actually at the entrance) so the claimant is therefore compliant.

At that point it was damage limitation so I got the POFA and CRA acts out and got the additional costs knocked off but that was it.

So not the best use of a morning unfortunately.

beamerguy

That's a shame, it is judge bingo.   Your judge did not however seem to be up to speed with parking scams
Which court
Name of Judge
As the fake £60 was knocked off, VCS lost as well  .... average £137 per ticket, take away their costs and maybe they will get a cup of tea out of this

nosferatu1001

Indeed, thats a shame
The claimant has to prove their case. She seems to have forgotten that. Theyre claiming the signs wedr present *where the vehicle was parked* but cant say ewhere that is, you can point out that there is sufficeint doubt that signs can be seen like that in ALL areas of the car park, so boom, thrown out. 
I assume they got no costs? As such theyve likely just about lost money still. 

theako2k

Gloucester and Cheltenham county court, I'll get the name of the Judge as it wasn't the one on the piece of paper. The case got cancelled last week as didn't have a judge allocated so guessing she just got given the case this week as she's a deputy DJ. I knew I was done early doors as she seemed to think that any sign visible from the entrance of the car park whether readable or not (or actually located at the entrance) is sufficient.   I showed her photos of an entire section of the car park that has no signs that VCS conveniently forgot to include in their evidence and even that there is an area of the car park that is outside their patrol zone but the Judge said I would have to pass a sign to get to those locations so my defence was irrelevant.

I've banged in a complaint against the court to make me feel better as cancelling with less than 24 hours notice has left me needing to take 2 days off work and letting the case start an hour later as the VCS rep couldn't be bothered to turn up on time is pretty poor.

theako2k

nosferatu1001 said:

Indeed, thats a shame
The claimant has to prove their case. She seems to have forgotten that. Theyre claiming the signs wedr present *where the vehicle was parked* but cant say ewhere that is, you can point out that there is sufficeint doubt that signs can be seen like that in ALL areas of the car park, so boom, thrown out. 
I assume they got no costs? As such theyve likely just about lost money still. 

nosferatu1001 said:

Indeed, thats a shame
The claimant has to prove their case. She seems to have forgotten that. Theyre claiming the signs wedr present *where the vehicle was parked* but cant say ewhere that is, you can point out that there is sufficeint doubt that signs can be seen like that in ALL areas of the car park, so boom, thrown out. 
I assume they got no costs? As such theyve likely just about lost money still. 

The judge said because she could see signs from the entrance of the car park then there can be no doubt that the driver would be aware of signs. Like I say from the moment I said I couldn't confirm whether I was the driver she got very hostile and basically ignored any evidence related to signage.

They got £75 court costs.

nosferatu1001

Yes, the filing, hearing  fee - none of the extras such as £60 debt recovery nonsense at least!
Vine v Waltham Forest says shes wrong. Signs HAVE to be seen. 

theako2k

nosferatu1001 said:

Yes, the filing, hearing  fee - none of the extras such as £60 debt recovery nonsense at least!
Vine v Waltham Forest says shes wrong. Signs HAVE to be seen. 

Yeah I said that's with the 'entrance' signs that she was referring to being on the passenger side they can easily be missed but she was adamant that there is no way a driver would not see a sign. Again she said the claimants evidence clearly shows that there are a number of signs present in the car park so the signage is sufficient. 

Clearly she isn't well versed in parking tickets and I've been stitched up a bit with the court rescheduling and what not.

theako2k

Just reflecting on my hearing yesterday. Should I have just admitted I was the driver when the judge asked yesterday or is it just a case of getting unlucky with the judge that was allocated?

D_P_Dance

For the case I had a female deputy district judge and she was hostile from the beginning

It sounds to me as if you have very reason t make a formal complaint against the judge.  

https://judicialconduct.judiciary.gov.uk/making-a-complaint/

Do not complain about the decision but about her demeanour/attitude,  her failure to consider your arguments.  Why did she not believe that you were unable to remember who the driver was? 

IMO all judges owe their  "clients" a duty of care ,to be impartial,  it seems she was not.   Make the complaint, it  may be one of many.

Coupon-mad

theako2k said:

Just reflecting on my hearing yesterday. Should I have just admitted I was the driver when the judge asked yesterday or is it just a case of getting unlucky with the judge that was allocated?

Hard to know, but we do often say if your case is all about signage it can be a more honest position in front of a Judge t admit to driving so you can bear witness to the lack of signs.

On the plus side, I am glad you had this in your back pocket and this has cost them a lot more than you paid for two PCNs!

At that point it was damage limitation so I got the POFA and CRA acts out and got the additional costs knocked off but that was it.