A Question for Tory Supporters

phillw

Cakeguts wrote: »

Most people have MPs who go to school fetes or open garden parties or visit the local hospice in fact do things for their voters.

I think I'd prefer my MP to not do any of those things

LHW99 wrote: »

Not a particularly good model, but not actually illegal and hardly uncommon in or outside Parliament.

There are people in this thread who would like it to be illegal, at least for the poor.

MisterMotivated

justjohn wrote: »

Oldest strategy it the world divide and conker.

Ah, that old horse chestnut :rotfl:

Arklight

14 pages and not one Tory supporter has managed to say anything positive about their party.

It's all, 'I vote Tory because I hate the homeless / the unemployed / Labour / single mothers / paying tax.

Imagine having your whole political doctrine based around things you hate or are afraid of. Nothing positive at all.

Cakeguts

phillw wrote: »

I think I'd prefer my MP to not do any of those things



There are people in this thread who would like it to be illegal, at least for the poor.

Not me. I don't think getting pregnant outside a relationship is a problem as long as both parents then pay for the child, including housing it and don't expect anyone else to pay for anything. If you are old enough to produce a child you are old enough to work out how to pay for bringing it up and housing it without expecting anyone else to pay towards it.



I think the problem is the word entitled. There seems to have been a change in wording towards claiming money from the state. I have seen the word entitled used a lot in terms of benefits that can be claimed. I think that needs to be changed because it seems to be implying that you are entitled to have the state pay for whatever you want to have that you can't afford.



I also often see people write about the government paying for something. Lots of people can't make the connection between the governments money being taxpayers money. They seem to think that there is a magic money tree somewhere.

Cakeguts

I voted Tory last time because that was the only chance there was of getting rid of the world's most useless MP. Sadly he still got in again. I hope he retires before he gets to Corbyn's age. It eventually gets down to the least awful option depending on where you live. The Green Party has gone bonkers in the last 5 years or so and the Lib Dems have no chance in my area of getting in because of the useless MP's voters.


I googled our useless Labour MP and discovered that he went to a private school where the fees are now over £3000 a term. Then Cambridge University. Not much chance of him of ever being able to relate to someone from a poor background then. He doesn't live in the constituency either although that was one of his orginal election promises. I have no idea why people vote for him. I assume that they just vote Labour without looking at what they are getting.

benbay001

Arklight wrote: »

14 pages and not one Tory supporter has managed to say anything positive about their party.

It's all, 'I vote Tory because I hate the homeless / the unemployed / Labour / single mothers / paying tax.

Imagine having your whole political doctrine based around things you hate or are afraid of. Nothing positive at all.

Personally, I vote Tory because I like people that aren't homeless, have jobs and I also like paying low tax.


Is that more positive? Just because you don't agree/ don't understand, doesn't mean your need to get angry. We all think differently and its one of the joys of the world.


Doesn't the Guardian have some articles you can froth over?


Cheer up.

Arklight

benbay001 wrote: »

Personally, I vote Tory because I like people that aren't homeless, have jobs and I also like paying low tax.


Is that more positive? Just because you don't agree/ don't understand, doesn't mean your need to get angry. We all think differently and its one of the joys of the world.


Doesn't the Guardian have some articles you can froth over?


Cheer up.

The number of rough sleepers have nearly doubled since the Tories have been in power.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/31/165-increase-homelessness-since-tories-took-power-8419274/

All measures of inequality and poverty are up, public sector debt is up by over 50%.

So if you are voting Tory because you think they are doing a good job with any of these things, you are woefully ill informed (which appears to be another common factor in right wing voters).

And to be honest, tax isn't even especially low under the Tories, not for how little we get for it and how poorly they spend our money.

benbay001

The number of people sleeping rough has increased from 1700 to 4600 according to that article.


That number is far lower than I would have imagined it to be and so low that it could simple be caused by better record keeping.


Also, shock horror, I don't vote Tory to reduce the wealth gap or to reduce poverty. I vote tory because I believe that their policies provided much greater opportunity for people to make a true success of their life on average as evidenced by the record employment and unemployment levels.


Rather than paying people to not be poor, increasing employment both increased wealth and reduces the poverty gap, rather than just re allocating money from the rich to the poor.

Arklight

benbay001 wrote: »

The number of people sleeping rough has increased from 1700 to 4600 according to that article.


That number is far lower than I would have imagined it to be and so low that it could simple be caused by better record keeping.


Also, shock horror, I don't vote Tory to reduce the wealth gap or to reduce poverty. I vote tory because I believe that their policies provided much greater opportunity for people to make a true success of their life on average as evidenced by the record employment and unemployment levels.


Rather than paying people to not be poor, increasing employment both increased wealth and reduces the poverty gap, rather than just re allocating money from the rich to the poor.

But people aren't getting richer. Average "real" wages are lower now than they were 10 years ago:

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-have-wages-changed/

Inequality has spiralled:

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/sep/05/qa-how-unequal-is-britain-and-are-the-poor-getting-poorer

And you're celebrating the fact that under the Tories homelessness has only tripled, because it could be much worse? Well don't worry, it is getting much worse. As is every other quality of life and wealth indicator.

Well don't worry eh, you can always go on holiday. With your pound that is now barely worth more than 1 euro.

If you want to champion Tory voting I wouldn't do so on economic grounds. They are a disaster.

Cakeguts

A lot of rough sleepers are due to the NHS not doing its job properly. If they stopped concentrating on "nice" people who need their services and did something about the people who have serious mental illnesses the number of rough sleepers would drop. There isn't enough support for people who have mental illnesses but plenty for people who physical illnesses.



If you compare mental illness to cancer (they can both kill) and then think about the public response to the NHS not helping people with cancer sleeping rough on the streets every night because they can't access health care you can get to see what it is like for people with mental illnesses.



There isn't enough support for single people. It is all about families. We need to stop concentrating on familes and start concentrating on single people. Those single people are someone's child but because they don't have the "sweet" aspect anymore they get ignored. Families can sort themselves out. Disabled and ill single people can't.