A Question for Tory Supporters

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

So what annual salary do you feel is appropriate before a family should have kids?

I think the main problem is they hate being reminded that other people are getting to have sex.

ChopperST

Herzlos wrote: »

So what annual salary do you feel is appropriate before a family should have kids?

There is no annual salary one should have before having children but a sensible couple would sit down and look at the cost implications of maintaining a reasonable standard of living once the significant costs of a child are taken into account. The main cost being either paying for expensive nursery provision or one parent going P/T or stopping work all together to be the primary care giver.

Herzlos

What about parents who can afford to have kids and then something happens, like one of the parents or kids has a medical condition that is expensive or makes work impossible?


It's all fair and well to say "Don't have kids until you can afford it" but it's never a perfect system and if we did we'd have a much faster population decline since the wealth balance is worsening and people are having kids later.



These kids who's existence outrage some are the ones who are going to be paying for their pensions.

ChopperST

Herzlos wrote: »

What about parents who can afford to have kids and then something happens, like one of the parents or kids has a medical condition that is expensive or makes work impossible?


It's all fair and well to say "Don't have kids until you can afford it" but it's never a perfect system and if we did we'd have a much faster population decline since the wealth balance is worsening and people are having kids later.



These kids who's existence outrage some are the ones who are going to be paying for their pensions.

That's what you have an emergency fund, life insurance, income protection insurance for.

Granted there are going to be some outlying exceptional cases but you cannot assume that you will be fit and healthy all your life and have to make some provision that at some point you may fall on hard times.

Sailtheworld

ChopperST wrote: »

There is no annual salary one should have before having children but a sensible couple would sit down and look at the cost implications of maintaining a reasonable standard of living once the significant costs of a child are taken into account. The main cost being either paying for expensive nursery provision or one parent going P/T or stopping work all together to be the primary care giver.

Yes that sounds very sensible but don't forget there's a biological imperative to breed and pass on our DNA to the next generation.

Doesn't mean people need 10 kids on benefits but you can't just condense it into a spreadsheet.

Green_Bear

babyblade41 wrote: »

That is my point... I have done everything possible up to the age of 18 including the costs of giving them a head start...I'd say what most caring parent does.

My point that if you can't afford them then don't have them if you expect others to pay..having children is not just about the cost of babies and toddlers, it's the cost of them at teen level as well.

School trips, important text books for their education, and boundaries about where they go and with whom until they are 18.

Costs that some parents don't do ..and not all financial

My youngest did have a lazy side and dithered about going onto further education , just to hang out from working full time ..for me further education unless it will lead to future employment is totally pointless... I think she looked at drama ..

She was sent to work in her P/T job full time .. she soon found out it was long hours for minimum wage and had to start at the bottom of the ladder

Thankfully she did and now has an excellent job and is remunerated well. , and although the job due to it's sensitive nature is extremely stressful and often frustrating she does reap the benefit of a strong working ethic .

Sacrice though is high as they can't afford children ..not with their house and to be honest they would have to give up a fair bit of leisure which they aren't ready for now...if ever

I just told my kids from the start that they weren't getting a penny off me, unless they earned it.
Luckily they believed me and I didn't have to see a police car pull up outside my house too often.

Whenever they were little and we saw a homeless person begging - I'd always tell them ''that will be you if you ever take drugs - because I'll chuck you out''.
Then the eldest would say it to the younger ones and I think it sunk in.

No point trying to dictate who they hang around with. That's impossible.

Green_Bear

Herzlos wrote: »

What about parents who can afford to have kids and then something happens, like one of the parents or kids has a medical condition that is expensive or makes work impossible?

It's all fair and well to say "Don't have kids until you can afford it" but it's never a perfect system and if we did we'd have a much faster population decline since the wealth balance is worsening and people are having kids later.

These kids who's existence outrage some are the ones who are going to be paying for their pensions.

And with all the anti-immigration politics going on, this is going to be a massive demographic problem.
I think the key will be investing to benefit from emerging market population growth.
Doesn't need to be foreign companies though. UK / US listed multinationals should give you exposure.

Herzlos

ChopperST wrote: »

That's what you have an emergency fund, life insurance, income protection insurance for.

Emergency funds will only cover you so far. How much of a cash pot do you think you'd need to hedge against any child related expenses?

Granted there are going to be some outlying exceptional cases but you cannot assume that you will be fit and healthy all your life and have to make some provision that at some point you may fall on hard times.

Of course you need to make some allowances, and ideally a few months savings buffer, but many people don't because they can't afford it. The right-wing view is that these people can't afford it because they pay out so much for fags, alcohol, sky and obscene TV's whilst claiming benefits, but the reality is that there are lots of families who have working parents who still can't afford to cover all of the basics never mind putting money aside for later. It's remarkably expensive being poor, and those that say it isn't don't know what they are talking about.

babyblade41

I pretty much lost everything that i's ever worked for many years ago, so I do know what falling on hard times means.

I didn't whinge , no point no one would listen, I had to start again. I started cleaning, I was never proud so cleaning was about all I could do with limited skills except in my knowledgable field

From that cleaning job came an idea, from that idea I knew I could come back again and so working 7 days a week , very long hours I managed to get back on my feet again and eventually got back , not to where I was before but where I'd be comfortable with.

My kids didn't suffer anymore as I was always working but mostly worked nights so it didn't impede on them

No, there isn't a set salary to earn before children but common sense will tell you whether it's the right time , not just financially but mentally too...see too many kids having kids

Green_Bear

babyblade41 wrote: »

I pretty much lost everything that i's ever worked for many years ago, so I do know what falling on hard times means.

I didn't whinge , no point no one would listen, I had to start again. I started cleaning, I was never proud so cleaning was about all I could do with limited skills except in my knowledgable field

From that cleaning job came an idea, from that idea I knew I could come back again and so working 7 days a week , very long hours I managed to get back on my feet again and eventually got back , not to where I was before but where I'd be comfortable with.

My kids didn't suffer anymore as I was always working but mostly worked nights so it didn't impede on them

No, there isn't a set salary to earn before children but common sense will tell you whether it's the right time , not just financially but mentally too...see too many kids having kids

Asset protection.
For every hour spent earning money, spend a minute thinking about how you will protect it.