A Question for Tory Supporters

enthusiasticsaver

I am not a Tory supporter, I don't support any party full stop but each election I look at the candidate, the party manifesto and check as much as I can then decide. At the moment I could not vote conservative as they are far too right and most of them self serving career politicians and I think Brexit is a massive disaster and should never have been something that was subjected to a public vote without any clear way forward.

I can't say I am too enamoured with Labour though either or the Liberal Democrats so not a lot of choices out there. It may be the least worst option for me.

Mee

zarf2007 wrote: »

Of course, vote for Corbyn, after all he admires Venezuela’s social policies.......enough said.

Yes his administration descended into a dictatorship. I'm sure Corbyn admires the early days when some of the policies worked as per infographic and article in The Guardian at the time of his death.
I make no excuse for such violent regimes, though I am always conscious when reading any political commentary on leftist governments of Central/South America of how their larger and more dominant neighbour to the north has a history of undermining such regimes. The Iran-Contra affair, and the fall of Salvador Allende comes to mind, and of course their and Thatcher and Lamont's support of Pinochet.

Arklight

benbay001 wrote: »

If more people are working, yet the average wage doesn't drop, then more people are earning the average. Surely?

Maybe I should phrase my statement better. Wage increases have consistently been behind inflation so most workers are worse off now than they were a decade ago (in real terms).

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/26/uk-wage-growth-g20-nations-ilo-pay?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Averages are easily skewed by outliers at the top and bottom of the population. So more workers but the same average doesn't tell you anything about the number of people earning the most common salary.

For example, in a country of 2 people where one is earning £1m and the other nothing, the average wage is £500,000.

If the following year a 3rd worker arrives who also earns nothing, but the one who was paid is given a raise to £1.5 million, the average wage is still £500,000.

It would be helpful to know the modal (most common) salary, but I've never been able to find this.

enthusiasticsaver

I would also say that I do not believe that the majority of people on benefits are scroungers and maybe some tax dodging multi national corporations or wealthy individuals should receive some of the ire on this thread. Any of us could have things happen which throw us off course and although we all hope we are prepared for anything life throws at us sometimes that is just not possible and the welfare state is needed to provide a safety net. I don't have experience of claiming from them luckily but the hoops I have heard people have to jump through just to get some help would put most people off and it seems a shame that someone who is mentally or physically ill and vulnerable have to deal with things like this. The media has a lot to answer for in riling up people to believe that anyone needing help from the welfare state must be an overweight lazy scrounger with 12 kids.

Arklight

Mee wrote: »

Yes his administration descended into a dictatorship. I'm sure Corbyn admires the early days when some of the policies worked as per infographic and article in The Guardian at the time of his death.
I make no excuse for such violent regimes, though I am always conscious when reading any political commentary on leftist governments of Central/South America of how their larger and more dominant neighbour to the north has a history of undermining such regimes. The Iran-Contra affair, and the fall of Salvador Allende comes to mind, and of course their and Thatcher and Lamont's support of Pinochet.

It is ironic seeing the Republican right's horror at the arrival of Latin American migrants (walls and what have you) when US foreign policy, which openly advocates regime change, is the cause of most of them.

Cakeguts

Sailtheworld wrote: »

Or we could pop round to an elderly neighbour, check they're OK, have a 5 minute chat and see if they want anything picking up from the shops.

I don't think even Thrug is suggesting that the local community should take over the medication of cancer patients to save the NHS money.

No they suggested that the local community take over the medical care of people with mental illness. The big problem with mental illness is that you can't see it and it is very difficult to complain if you are ill so the NHS gets away with not treating it properly.

Cakeguts

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

I would also say that I do not believe that the majority of people on benefits are scroungers and maybe some tax dodging multi national corporations or wealthy individuals should receive some of the ire on this thread. Any of us could have things happen which throw us off course and although we all hope we are prepared for anything life throws at us sometimes that is just not possible and the welfare state is needed to provide a safety net. I don't have experience of claiming from them luckily but the hoops I have heard people have to jump through just to get some help would put most people off and it seems a shame that someone who is mentally or physically ill and vulnerable have to deal with things like this. The media has a lot to answer for in riling up people to believe that anyone needing help from the welfare state must be an overweight lazy scrounger with 12 kids.

I think what most people are saying is that the benefit system is a safety net for if something goes wrong. However there are people who view it as a way of life.

ukcarper

Arklight wrote: »

Maybe I should phrase my statement better. Wage increases have consistently been behind inflation so most workers are worse off now than they were a decade ago (in real terms).

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/26/uk-wage-growth-g20-nations-ilo-pay?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Averages are easily skewed by outliers at the top and bottom of the population. So more workers but the same average doesn't tell you anything about the number of people earning the most common salary.

For example, in a country of 2 people where one is earning £1m and the other nothing, the average wage is £500,000.

If the following year a 3rd worker arrives who also earns nothing, but the one who was paid is given a raise to £1.5 million, the average wage is still £500,000.

It would be helpful to know the modal (most common) salary, but I've never been able to find this.

I believe ons use median earnings so 50% of people earn more than quoted average.

oddjobbpb

Yes, the Tories are absolutely dreadful


Until you compare them to the others.

Labour....sitting on the fence, trying to save both their remain and leave voters, crazy spending plans. Fortunately Corbyn is unelectable as PM, so little danger there.

Lib Dems....will get torn to shreds in an election campaign once they are portrayed as ignoring the referendum.

Brexit party...will lose a good amount of their following as long as any brexit deal can be sold as strog enough.

The others are also rans.

TBQH I don't care who gets in as long as it's not Labour.

Drawer_full_of_socks

Cakeguts wrote: »

I think what most people are saying is that the benefit system is a safety net for if something goes wrong. However there are people who view it as a way of life.

And how many people do you think that is?

Do you know that the majority of social security expenditure goes to pensioners?

Pensions £111bn 42%
Incapacity, disability & injury benefits £44bn 16%
Unemployment benefits £2bn 1%
Housing benefits £25bn 10%
Family benefits, income support & tax credits £46bn 18%
Personal social services and other benefits £35bn 13%


The conservatives will never be honest about these statistics as they know the amount lost through uncollected taxation dwarfs the unemployment payments.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/howisthewelfarebudgetspent/2016-03-16