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Santander blocked account- help!

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Budgeting & Bank Accounts
109 replies 5.9K views
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  • dreamingdreaming Forumite
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    xlnc99 wrote: »
    You have indeed very respectful and you are one of the very few people on here that actually know what they are talking about so i do indeed listen to your views and opinions with great interest. I do have experience in the financial industry and have thorough knowledge of certain subjects through my past experience and i have dealt with all sorts of situations in the financial market. I dont have the 20 years you do though so i applaud you for that.

    My main point is that and maybe you can answer as no-one seems to have the answer. Can you give me one example of money laundering which is done through online faster payments/chaps/bacs etc. It doesnt exist, for that to happen someone must be stupid enough to go into the bank and deposit cash then do online transfers. However that is easily traced and caught so i am not referring to cash deposits followed by online transfer. How do you launder money even if you transfereed 100k to 100 different accounts, that is not money laundering. That is my point im trying to make.

    People seem to be confused in thinking money laundering is transferring money to different accounts. Not true, very simply put its turning dirty money into clean money. Unless the online transfers are already dirty you cannot money launder online it has be be 'clean' first, either through cash businesses etc

    That is my point. nothing more

    Okay, thanks for replying. No need to applaud me for working in the industry for as long as I did. It was never my intention to do so and was in fact supposed to be temporary. However, as often happens, real life got in the way and I realised that it was probably the best job (in the sense of pay and benefits (staff mortgage for example). I have to say that the day I left was one of the best days of my life but unfortunately, try as I might, I can't seem to get rid of the knowledge I acquired - although it is rapidly becoming dated.
    Without trawling through a huge number of cases it is unlikely that anyone can give you a succesfully-prosecuted example of money laundering using bank transfers. Many cases are obviously stopped by the banks' processes, and some get "hushed-up", or at least much of the information is not published so as not to give out such informaation. However, if I wanted to "wash" some dirty cash (not movie-speak but reality) it would be perfectly feasible to place the funds into my bank account (probably set upwith false details) then quickly transfer the cash elsewhere. Maybe to other bogus bank accounts with other institutions. Admittedly the chances are I would split it into smaller amounts rather than the initial deposit but even can crooks be dumb. This could go on through as many bank accounts as I was able to set up, or I might be able to persuade a gullible relative or friend to pass the funds through their accounts with the promise of an amount of cash for them. Eventually the cash would be withdrawn, or used to purchase an item, and the accounts closed.
    I don't know that there are "thousands" of such illegal practices but it is certainly possible that such a scenario as I have described could happen. Many banks will admit (in private) that whatever procedures they put in place to mitigate these wrong-doings then the crooks are often 1 step ahead of them.

    So hopefully that explains how it is possible - but please don't try this at home. Withe regards to a subsequent post of yours regarding excuses and name-calling I can't say I have seen much of that on here other than when you have been very bullish in insisting that most people on here don't know what they are talking about, and that you know better. You would have had much better responses if you had questioned the information being posted without this.
    Anyway, I hope the OP gets a resolution to their problem very shortly.
  • dreamingdreaming Forumite
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    18cc wrote: »
    I am no expert but this is how I always assumed it would happen through faster payments.

    The baddy pays say £20k to a 'clean' account - could be yours, your daughters, anyone's.

    That person then forwards it on to a second account less of course a deduction of say £500 or £1k for their trouble.

    All dirt removed.

    Cross-posted 18cc, and you were much more succinct in your explanation, but yes, you have it spot on although it tends to go through more than one movement.
  • sassy-onesassy-one Forumite
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    Sorry to burst a certain persons bubble who is clearly getting very wound up over something they don't really know.


    Without spilling too much, I have dealt closely with many legal matters and I can tell you TRANSFERING MONEY ONLINE is in fact MONEY LAUNDERING - agreed, dependant on the source of those funds.

    I give you an example -


    Someone concerned in crime banks money that was obtained through crime OR is going to be used to commit or otherwise furnish criminal activity.
    If and when this is detected either by the bank or authorities, the authorities can obtain a bank freezing order via a Magistrates Court, under Money Laundering legislation.
    If you look for an example of this court document, you will see ML mentioned and Proceeds of Crime Act.


    Now I am sure you will shoot me down too, but unlike others, I won't feed you.
  • Terry_TowellingTerry_Towelling Forumite
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    Crikey, what a lot of to-ing, fro-ing and name calling on a thread that was a complete fabrication from the outset. It never happened.

    As for the money laundering argument it spawned, isn't the issue that dirty money has to be accessed in 'clean' form before it can be said to have been actually laundered. Up to the point of clean access, it is perhaps only attempted laundering.

    So, when dirty cash has been deposited you could access it in clean form by spending against it on your debit card, or perhaps by paying off your credit card bill with some of it. You might even try to move it elsewhere (by online transfer) before trying to access it in the hope the further it moves from its dirty source, the more likely you are to be able to access it in clean form without it being picked up.

    So, making an online transfer could easily be part of the 'cleaning' process.
  • meer53meer53 Forumite
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    xlnc99 wrote: »
    oh dear oh dear.... that is fraud.

    When i mean dodgy mean i mean the scammer is transferring funds probably from someones real account they paid to do so or stole details for the account or got hacked. Various different scenarios...

    You have been told a few times by many different people on the forum to refrain from offering opinions on matters which you have little knowledge. It confuses people

    How much experience do you have in AML then ? I'm interested.
  • xlnc99xlnc99 Forumite
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    Crikey, what a lot of to-ing, fro-ing and name calling on a thread that was a complete fabrication from the outset. It never happened.

    As for the money laundering argument it spawned, isn't the issue that dirty money has to be accessed in 'clean' form before it can be said to have been actually laundered. Up to the point of clean access, it is perhaps only attempted laundering.

    So, when dirty cash has been deposited you could access it in clean form by spending against it on your debit card, or perhaps by paying off your credit card bill with some of it. You might even try to move it elsewhere (by online transfer) before trying to access it in the hope the further it moves from its dirty source, the more likely you are to be able to access it in clean form without it being picked up.

    So, making an online transfer could easily be part of the 'cleaning' process.

    This was my point! The process of money laundering is at the start once its clean you cant do a online transfer for money laundering! It simply does not work! The purpose of money laundering is transferring dirty money into clean..... you cannot transfer dirty money!

    The examples given up about 20k being paid into too an account then they transfer it to another to take their cut etc etc. That is fraud not money laundering!!!!
  • xlnc99xlnc99 Forumite
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    dreaming wrote: »
    Okay, thanks for replying. No need to applaud me for working in the industry for as long as I did. It was never my intention to do so and was in fact supposed to be temporary. However, as often happens, real life got in the way and I realised that it was probably the best job (in the sense of pay and benefits (staff mortgage for example). I have to say that the day I left was one of the best days of my life but unfortunately, try as I might, I can't seem to get rid of the knowledge I acquired - although it is rapidly becoming dated.
    Without trawling through a huge number of cases it is unlikely that anyone can give you a succesfully-prosecuted example of money laundering using bank transfers. Many cases are obviously stopped by the banks' processes, and some get "hushed-up", or at least much of the information is not published so as not to give out such informaation. However, if I wanted to "wash" some dirty cash (not movie-speak but reality) it would be perfectly feasible to place the funds into my bank account (probably set upwith false details) then quickly transfer the cash elsewhere. Maybe to other bogus bank accounts with other institutions. Admittedly the chances are I would split it into smaller amounts rather than the initial deposit but even can crooks be dumb. This could go on through as many bank accounts as I was able to set up, or I might be able to persuade a gullible relative or friend to pass the funds through their accounts with the promise of an amount of cash for them. Eventually the cash would be withdrawn, or used to purchase an item, and the accounts closed.
    I don't know that there are "thousands" of such illegal practices but it is certainly possible that such a scenario as I have described could happen. Many banks will admit (in private) that whatever procedures they put in place to mitigate these wrong-doings then the crooks are often 1 step ahead of them.

    So hopefully that explains how it is possible - but please don't try this at home. Withe regards to a subsequent post of yours regarding excuses and name-calling I can't say I have seen much of that on here other than when you have been very bullish in insisting that most people on here don't know what they are talking about, and that you know better. You would have had much better responses if you had questioned the information being posted without this.
    Anyway, I hope the OP gets a resolution to their problem very shortly.

    Thanks the reply, my response to this would be its fraud and not money laundering. That is where me and you differ in opinions i belive. I understand your points and logic but i think our terminology is different
  • boo_starboo_star Forumite
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    xlnc99 wrote: »
    This was my point! The process of money laundering is at the start once its clean you cant do a online transfer for money laundering! It simply does not work! The purpose of money laundering is transferring dirty money into clean..... you cannot transfer dirty money!

    The examples given up about 20k being paid into too an account then they transfer it to another to take their cut etc etc. That is fraud not money laundering!!!!

    No, it's money laundering.
    Money laundering is the illegal process of concealing the origins of money obtained illegally by passing it through a complex sequence of banking transfers or commercial transactions. The overall scheme of this process returns the money to the launderer in an obscure and indirect way.

    You need to stop giving people advice.
  • OceanSoundOceanSound Forumite
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    Santander has always been gung ho about these things. I remember they caused a right solemn dance when it came to withdrawing the £5.00 balance of my savings account (which i still think they incorrectly marked as 'dormant').

    First they asked me to write a letter, then after i sent this they asked me to send a copy of ID. I did. Then they asked me to come in to the branch. I complained to ombudsman and was awarded £150 compensation for trouble and upset. Although, the adjudicator still thought the dormancy block was applied correctly. (Santander quite conveniently said they had no records of the account due to the lapse of time)

    Re. Dormancy block, i happen to see some newspaper articles where santander has done the same to Pensioners with much larger sums of money.

    Btw, is NOT using paragraphs when writing the latest fad?
  • dreamingdreaming Forumite
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    xlnc99 wrote: »
    Thanks the reply, my response to this would be its fraud and not money laundering. That is where me and you differ in opinions i belive. I understand your points and logic but i think our terminology is different

    The fact that you and I have a different opinion or use different terminology is absolutely fine - I can live with that although it makes "conversation" difficult if we talk at cross purposes. However it is the opinion of the authorities (in this case the police and the banks) that matter, and they would definitely see this as money laundering.
    Hopefully you and I will never feel the need to test this as I'm not sure it will be much of a defence in court if you argue that you should not have been arrested for money laundering but for fraud.

    Have a good day and hope you enjoy the sunshine.
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