Dismissal Appeal! Help please.

AimzyLC

Hi,

New to the forum. Just wondering if anyone could provide any advice or support.

Recently been dismissed for misuse or organisations time and resources. Basically using my phone within work. I was using my phone to provide support to a colleague who disclosed he was suicidal at the time I must admit i didnt even think about misuing a policy due to the sheer worry I had. During the hearing i did however agree that I was wrong for doing so. I raised safeguarding concerns with the safeguarding officer and deputy officer due to him working with vulnerable teenagers and was threatening me too however these were ignored for 13 weeks all at which time he threatened me and my family to the point he was going to kill me also. My boss was aware, also aware I was using my phone and actually advocated such behaviour she did not provide a warning and asked me to keep the line of communication open so she could see what was coming through. But it's my word against hers.

I have a clear disciplinary record however unfortunately only worked for the company for a year so do not qualify for a claim for unfair dismissal.

I was not given the opportunity to provide my evidence etc and was a witness for 4 month before the company decided to investigate me and then instantly dismiss me. I was not suspended. I was also told that I would he receiving a written warning, not to worry or pursue with the union support. The evidence they used to dismissed me was a thread of WhatsApp messages produced by the other person without my consent. The company then used this as evidence to sack me.

I believe that if the organisation had dealt with my concerns properly under the whistleblowing policy then I wouldn't have been misusing their time etc. I just feel like I shouldn't have raised the concerns now as it has backfired on me.

I do have union support and appealing the decision but just wondering if anyone thinks I have any chance with a successful appeal. Obviously not sure if I would want to return now but some form of compensation for loss or earnings and a good reference would be good.

I just struggle to comprehend how me trying to provide support and help to someone in need has resulted in this decision. .

Any support or advice in relation to appeals/ successful appeals would be great. Thanks in advance.

A

pinkshoes

You have been there for less than 2 years so they can get rid of you for any reason they like as long as it is not one of the protected characteristics.

I would start looking for another job.

AimzyLC

Thanks for response. Yeah I think that's the case pretty much if you have less than 2 years service. A bit crappy given the circumstances but I'll have to get over it.

Worried about looking for another job due to dismissal.

nicechap

AimzyLC wrote: »

Hi,

New to the forum. Just wondering if anyone could provide any advice or support.

Recently been dismissed for misuse or organisations time and resources. Basically using my phone within work. I was using my phone to provide support to a colleague who disclosed he was suicidal at the time I must admit i didnt even think about misuing a policy due to the sheer worry I had. During the hearing i did however agree that I was wrong for doing so. I raised safeguarding concerns with the safeguarding officer and deputy officer due to him working with vulnerable teenagers and was threatening me too however these were ignored for 13 weeks all at which time he threatened me and my family to the point he was going to kill me also. My boss was aware, also aware I was using my phone and actually advocated such behaviour she did not provide a warning and asked me to keep the line of communication open so she could see what was coming through. But it's my word against hers.

I have a clear disciplinary record however unfortunately only worked for the company for a year so do not qualify for a claim for unfair dismissal.

I was not given the opportunity to provide my evidence etc and was a witness for 4 month before the company decided to investigate me and then instantly dismiss me. I was not suspended. I was also told that I would he receiving a written warning, not to worry or pursue with the union support. The evidence they used to dismissed me was a thread of WhatsApp messages produced by the other person without my consent. The company then used this as evidence to sack me.

I believe that if the organisation had dealt with my concerns properly under the whistleblowing policy then I wouldn't have been misusing their time etc. I just feel like I shouldn't have raised the concerns now as it has backfired on me.

I do have union support and appealing the decision but just wondering if anyone thinks I have any chance with a successful appeal. Obviously not sure if I would want to return now but some form of compensation for loss or earnings and a good reference would be good.

I just struggle to comprehend how me trying to provide support and help to someone in need has resulted in this decision. .

Any support or advice in relation to appeals/ successful appeals would be great. Thanks in advance.

A

Do you work in an organisation providing services to vulnerable people? Helping a colleague is normally a good thing so I struggled to follow your account of events.

you seemed to have skipped over the contents of the WhatsApp messaging. Without breaching confidentiality what did you say about your colleague, organisation or other matter that was serious enough for dismissal?

Comms69

AimzyLC wrote: »

Hi,

New to the forum. Just wondering if anyone could provide any advice or support.

Recently been dismissed for misuse or organisations time and resources. Basically using my phone within work. I was using my phone to provide support to a colleague who disclosed he was suicidal at the time I must admit i didnt even think about misuing a policy due to the sheer worry I had. During the hearing i did however agree that I was wrong for doing so. I raised safeguarding concerns with the safeguarding officer and deputy officer due to him working with vulnerable teenagers and was threatening me too however these were ignored for 13 weeks all at which time he threatened me and my family to the point he was going to kill me also. My boss was aware, also aware I was using my phone and actually advocated such behaviour she did not provide a warning and asked me to keep the line of communication open so she could see what was coming through. But it's my word against hers.

I have a clear disciplinary record however unfortunately only worked for the company for a year so do not qualify for a claim for unfair dismissal.

I was not given the opportunity to provide my evidence etc and was a witness for 4 month before the company decided to investigate me and then instantly dismiss me. I was not suspended. I was also told that I would he receiving a written warning, not to worry or pursue with the union support. The evidence they used to dismissed me was a thread of WhatsApp messages produced by the other person without my consent. The company then used this as evidence to sack me.

I believe that if the organisation had dealt with my concerns properly under the whistleblowing policy then I wouldn't have been misusing their time etc. I just feel like I shouldn't have raised the concerns now as it has backfired on me.

I do have union support and appealing the decision but just wondering if anyone thinks I have any chance with a successful appeal. Obviously not sure if I would want to return now but some form of compensation for loss or earnings and a good reference would be good.

I just struggle to comprehend how me trying to provide support and help to someone in need has resulted in this decision. .

Any support or advice in relation to appeals/ successful appeals would be great. Thanks in advance.

A

Why would they need your consent??

AimzyLC

Thanks for response @Comms69. Sorry if the post was unclear.

Yes worked for children's social care as did the colleague. He was working 1-1 with vulnerable service users telling me he was drinking in excess and that he was going to end his life. He was transporting teenagers around and I was really uncomfortable with it so I raised concerns with senior staff members. They didn't act on any concerns yet acknowledged he has previous history of mental health and suicidal thoughts. They put me in a compromising situation leaving me often unattended in the office with him after he had threatened to kill me.

In relation to the WhatsApp messages. I wasn't dismissed due to the content purely down to the times which they were sent which amounted to 81 messages over 20 working days. They said the time spent was substantial and dismissed due on that basis. The content was me trying to help him and him denying help.

The investigation report highlighted that the messages were obtained from the colleague and produced without my consent and due to privacy laws the content couldn't be considered. However, the union have advised that the times the messages were sent are also classed as content so they can't say they are discounting content then dismissing on that basis.

Im just didn't think the use of a phone to support somebody which the messages evidenced would be considered as gross misconduct and an instant dismissal I expected a warning for it but just thought it was harsh given the circumstances. But then I absolutley admit fault at using my phone whilst in work.

Thanks hope that helps a bit. Sorry for confusion

Undervalued

AimzyLC wrote: »

Hi,

New to the forum. Just wondering if anyone could provide any advice or support.

Recently been dismissed for misuse or organisations time and resources. Basically using my phone within work. I was using my phone to provide support to a colleague who disclosed he was suicidal at the time I must admit i didnt even think about misuing a policy due to the sheer worry I had. During the hearing i did however agree that I was wrong for doing so. I raised safeguarding concerns with the safeguarding officer and deputy officer due to him working with vulnerable teenagers and was threatening me too however these were ignored for 13 weeks all at which time he threatened me and my family to the point he was going to kill me also. My boss was aware, also aware I was using my phone and actually advocated such behaviour she did not provide a warning and asked me to keep the line of communication open so she could see what was coming through. But it's my word against hers.

I have a clear disciplinary record however unfortunately only worked for the company for a year so do not qualify for a claim for unfair dismissal.

I was not given the opportunity to provide my evidence etc and was a witness for 4 month before the company decided to investigate me and then instantly dismiss me. I was not suspended. I was also told that I would he receiving a written warning, not to worry or pursue with the union support. The evidence they used to dismissed me was a thread of WhatsApp messages produced by the other person without my consent. The company then used this as evidence to sack me.

I believe that if the organisation had dealt with my concerns properly under the whistleblowing policy then I wouldn't have been misusing their time etc. I just feel like I shouldn't have raised the concerns now as it has backfired on me.

I do have union support and appealing the decision but just wondering if anyone thinks I have any chance with a successful appeal. Obviously not sure if I would want to return now but some form of compensation for loss or earnings and a good reference would be good.

I just struggle to comprehend how me trying to provide support and help to someone in need has resulted in this decision. .

Any support or advice in relation to appeals/ successful appeals would be great. Thanks in advance.

A

As others have indicated they do not need "evidence" to dismiss you nor do they need to follow proper process, nor do they need to give a reason for dismissing you due to the fact that you have been employed for less than two years.

Unless you can show that their real reason amounted to unlawful discrimination, on one of a small handful of protected grounds, you have no redress.

Regarding an internal appeal, whilst some companies will look at the issue objectively (even when not obliged to due to lack of service) others will simply go through the motions.

So sadly, unless you genuinely believe there was unlawful discrimination or you are confident that the appeal will be handled objectively I am afraid you would be better to concentrate your efforts on finding an alternative job.

nicechap

AimzyLC wrote: »

Thanks for response @Comms69. Sorry if the post was unclear.

Yes worked for children's social care as did the colleague. He was working 1-1 with vulnerable service users telling me he was drinking in excess and that he was going to end his life. He was transporting teenagers around and I was really uncomfortable with it so I raised concerns with senior staff members. They didn't act on any concerns yet acknowledged he has previous history of mental health and suicidal thoughts. They put me in a compromising situation leaving me often unattended in the office with him after he had threatened to kill me.

In relation to the WhatsApp messages. I wasn't dismissed due to the content purely down to the times which they were sent which amounted to 81 messages over 20 working days. They said the time spent was substantial and dismissed due on that basis. The content was me trying to help him and him denying help.

The investigation report highlighted that the messages were obtained from the colleague and produced without my consent and due to privacy laws the content couldn't be considered. However, the union have advised that the times the messages were sent are also classed as content so they can't say they are discounting content then dismissing on that basis.

Im just didn't think the use of a phone to support somebody which the messages evidenced would be considered as gross misconduct and an instant dismissal I expected a warning for it but just thought it was harsh given the circumstances. But then I absolutley admit fault at using my phone whilst in work.

Thanks hope that helps a bit. Sorry for confusion

It still doesn’t quite make sense to me but the positive is that you have union support who can navigate you through the appeal process better than strangers on the internet.

They will have a better picture of events and how to challenge the disciplinary process. If it is a government or similarly funded organisation, adhering to good employment practices will be important to continued funding. And the last thing they will want is anything that shows them in a bad light such as dismissing someone for safeguarding children and aiding a suicidial colleague - which is why I think there is more to this than you maybe wish to acknowledge.

Whilst I don’t think what you said falls into whistle blowing, as they appear to have acted on your concerns, is there any possibility that you have written something in the WhatsApp messages that might reflect badly on the organisation? Or is there something that in hindsight you should have reported but didn’t?

Crazy_Jamie

pinkshoes wrote: »

You have been there for less than 2 years so they can get rid of you for any reason they like as long as it is not one of the protected characteristics.

I would start looking for another job.

There are other reasons, one of the most notable non discrimination exceptions being dismissal due to making a protected disclosure (whistleblowing). I only mention that because the OP mentions that he raised concerns and that they should have been dealt with under the whistleblowing policy. Obviously whether the company dealt with a disclosure under the correct policy does not stop that being a protected disclosure. However, there's simply not enough information here to determine whether or not the OP made a protected disclosure under what is quite a difficult legal test. Even if they did, that then has to be the reason for dismissal, which certainly on the face of it it wasn't. So notwithstanding the whistleblowing point, which is worth touching on because it has been mentioned, it does sound like the OP is likely in some difficulty here given their length of service.

Undervalued

Crazy_Jamie wrote: »

There are other reasons, one of the most notable non discrimination exceptions being dismissal due to making a protected disclosure (whistleblowing). I only mention that because the OP mentions that he raised concerns and that they should have been dealt with under the whistleblowing policy. Obviously whether the company dealt with a disclosure under the correct policy does not stop that being a protected disclosure. However, there's simply not enough information here to determine whether or not the OP made a protected disclosure under what is quite a difficult legal test. Even if they did, that then has to be the reason for dismissal, which certainly on the face of it it wasn't. So notwithstanding the whistleblowing point, which is worth touching on because it has been mentioned, it does sound like the OP is likely in some difficulty here given their length of service.

I totally agree but I (also) struggle to see how the OP is going to be able to argue that the real reason for dismissal was a protected disclosure.

The OP also says.....

The evidence they used to dismissed me was a thread of WhatsApp messages produced by the other person without my consent. The company then used this as evidence to sack me.

Which implies there was quite a lot of private mobile use during working hours?

What is not clear here is if it was simply the evidence of repeated phone use or the content of the WhatsApp thread (or both) that the employer didn't like? However, on the face of it, either is a valid reason for disciplinary action particularly if the firm has a clear "no private mobile use" policy.

But as I say, they don't actually need a reason, unless it is an attempt to disguise an unlawful one, which will be a real struggle to prove.

FBaby

Yes worked for children's social care as did the colleague. He was working 1-1 with vulnerable service users telling me he was drinking in excess and that he was going to end his life. He was transporting teenagers around and I was really uncomfortable with it so I raised concerns with senior staff members.

Really? You work for Social Services, had a colleague who confessed to being drunk and about to end his life whilst driving children but they did nothing? He continued to work, make threats to you but you got sacked for sending 4 whatsapp a day?

Sorry but I can't believe that is the true narrative of the events. I don't want to believe it!