Dismissal Appeal! Help please.

Crazy_Jamie

Undervalued wrote: »

I totally agree but I (also) struggle to see how the OP is going to be able to argue that the real reason for dismissal was a protected disclosure.

The OP also says.....



Which implies there was quite a lot of private mobile use during working hours?

What is not clear here is if it was simply the evidence of repeated phone use or the content of the WhatsApp thread (or both) that the employer didn't like? However, on the face of it, either is a valid reason for disciplinary action particularly if the firm has a clear "no private mobile use" policy.

But as I say, they don't actually need a reason, unless it is an attempt to disguise an unlawful one, which will be a real struggle to prove.

I agree. As ever with threads on this forum we don't have the complete picture, and details that we don't have can sometimes make all the difference, but from what the OP has said here it is by no means certain that they made a protected disclosure. Even if they did, they don't seem to have suggested with any sort of force that that was the reason for dismissal, let alone mentioned any evidence to suggest that. And of course you're right that it is for the OP to prove that (unlikely in ordinary unfair dismissal, where it is for the employer to prove the reason), which all in all makes the OP's position look somewhat weak here to say the least.

AimzyLC

Just catching up on messages.

Im not asking for anyone to believe that was the reason for my dismissal but I have my dismissal letter as proof of the allegations against me in relation to using my phone inappropriately and I know what the truth is so I'm fine with that. Yes i was absolutley dismissed for on average sending 4 messages a day to try and support a suicidal man all they see is that I breached a policy they don't take into consideration the circumstances because they don't need to because of my length of service etc.

My second post on the thread highlights I was dismissed due to the time spent texting at work. Nothing else. The dismissal letter clearly states that they havent taken the content into consideration. I have proof of the messages and have submitted them as part of my appeal as I have already stated in the original post I wasn't afforded the opportunity throughout the investigation. It went straight to a disciplinary hearing without interviewing me and then I was subsequently dismissed.

I have copies of the disclosures which I signed and sent to the safeguarding officer and deputy officer which has also been submitted with my appeal. I followed the correct safeguarding procedures on 3 separate occasions over 13 weeks and nothing happened. He continued to work, I continued to work. On 1st Feb the organisation made a decision to suspend him pending investigation. Im not aware what allegations were made against him. I highlighted my concerns in writing on 04th Nov 18.

I was simply asking for outside perspective on the situation as I'm really struggling with my mental health as a result of the decision and just can't understand how sending on average 4 texts a day to support someone has ended like this. The messages clearly show me pointing him in the right direction to mental health services and OH services within work and him declining and trying to blackmail me into not disclosing how he was feeling. I have submitted all this to the union and my employer with my appeal. I hope my employer looks objectively given they are an organisation trying to protect people from harm. It's difficult on threads for people to understand the circumstances but that's literally it. There is nothing inbetween the lines. I don't see how it would benefit me in any way asking for advice or support on a situation that isn't true or have missed bits out.

Thanks for replying everyone.

kazzah

I strongly suspect the real reason you have been dismissed is that you have raised a safeguarding issue which your employers are reluctant to deal with
I have recently had a similar experience with a family member working in a police situation who reported a safeguarding issue to the local authority and they were complained about to their boss by the local authority designated officer and the family member was actually told " don't make complaints about the care workers - it's better to have rubbish ones than none at all ".............. so my family member ( who had a previous role in social care for looked after children now doesn't bother as much...
it's easier to get rid of the people who blow the whistle than deal with the real problem

General_Grant

Did they follow their disciplinary procedures? If not, were they contractual? If so, has the Union suggested Wrongful Dismissal?

What is the level of the Union input that you have? Just workplace rep?

With so many messages in a day, was the recipient claiming harassment?

Manxman_in_exile

General_Grant wrote: »

Did they follow their disciplinary procedures? If not, were they contractual? If so, has the Union suggested Wrongful Dismissal?

What is the level of the Union input that you have? Just workplace rep?

With so many messages in a day, was the recipient claiming harassment?

I think I'd want a senior officer from the regional office involved.

AimzyLC

General Grant- thanks for responding.

In my opinion they did not follow their own disciplinary procedures which are contractual. Their disciplinary policy states that investigations must be fair and both parties must be interviewed and can provide evidence. They skipped that bit with me and went straight to a hearing. I have raised several things about the investigation that I had issue with all in breach of their disciplinary policy.

I have the regional officer supporting me. He has advised that I have strong grounds and my statement of appeal is robust and highlights their failings.

The messages showed him asking for my support, threatening me, trying to blackmail me and me trying to provide support. At no point did he ask or request the contact to stop so I don't believe he was claiming harassment. He was desperate for me to keep contacting me and became angry and aggressive if I didn't reply.

FBaby

Well, back in the day when Jimmy Savile was sexually abusing people I suspect that people like OP existed who knew about it, reported it to the BBC, but got replies like:

That's the point, thst was back then, this is now, and the scrutiny social services face is nothing compared to what the BBC was then.

It's unimaginable that a manager would have ignored such a significantly risky situation, but that others would to. Its not even as if the person they would be protecting is a manager.

OP, thry found an excuse to dismiss you, that doesn't mean it was the true reason. Thry could have done so without even a reason but it looks better on them to cite breaking the terms of a policy they should have been aware of. It is always the ex use used because its an easy one to defend in court if ever needed.

AimzyLC

Yes I agree Fbaby. I was performing very well and doing a job that nobody in the service is trained to do. Seems silly dismissing me after the investigating officer has offered a promotion, a full time job and a secondment to another LA for more money all whilst the investigation was on going.

Their Ofsted was inadequate, employed a bunch of staff to try and turn it round. Our figures are the highest they have ever been and the Chief Exec praised me for my efforts only 2 days prior to the dismissal. All just seems a bit fishy and absolutley believe it was for another reason.

Anyways thanks for responding. I feel a job hunt coming on!!!

Undervalued

AimzyLC wrote: »

General Grant- thanks for responding.

In my opinion they did not follow their own disciplinary procedures which are contractual. Their disciplinary policy states that investigations must be fair and both parties must be interviewed and can provide evidence. They skipped that bit with me and went straight to a hearing. I have raised several things about the investigation that I had issue with all in breach of their disciplinary policy.

I have the regional officer supporting me. He has advised that I have strong grounds and my statement of appeal is robust and highlights their failings.

The messages showed him asking for my support, threatening me, trying to blackmail me and me trying to provide support. At no point did he ask or request the contact to stop so I don't believe he was claiming harassment. He was desperate for me to keep contacting me and became angry and aggressive if I didn't reply.

Contractual? - Are you sure as that would be fairly unusual?

However even if they are contractual, failing to follow them only gives you the opportunity to make wrongful dismissal claim. Realistically all that would yield is a few days pay (a couple of weeks at very best) to compensate you for the time it would have taken to do things properly. It doesn't in itself make the dismissal unfair.

Smodlet

Whilst I cannot claim to understand the circumstances, given the dearth of information, I have to wonder why, OP, you did not immediately refer any communications in any form referring to suicidal thoughts in a colleague up the line and leave the situation to senior members of staff to deal with. Why did you feel the need to become involved in the first place? All you have done, from what I have read, is put yourself in a vulnerable position.

I must say, if anyone threatened violence against me, I would contact the police first and my manager second. If the reverse order is more in line with your employer's procedures, so be it but I would certainly not be attempting to "support" someone who treated me in such a manner.

Something about this does not add up, imho.