Paypal - credit rating and recovery?! Help desperately needed

gavinsmith1980

Hello,


I am completely new to this so please forgive if this subject has already been discussed.

In July 2019 I sold an antique vase to a buyer in China, for a total sum of £8,000. This was a life changing amount for me and my family and it enabled us to become debt free for the first time in our lives.

The buyer paid me via Paypal in four separate payments, he confirmed his address via email to me, I sent the vase via mailboxes who used a full tracking service via UPS, they took photographs of being packed also.


I paid for a full tracking service, which was signed for by the buyer and I have received a copy of this from UPS. The name that has been signed is the same as the buyer, so I felt very relieved!


The buyer has now said he has not received the vase. I have since noticed the address on the Paypal invoice is different to the one buyer sent me and I fear I have been part of a scam and Paypal will now rule against me. The address on Paypal address is in Chinese and I needed the English version as well but didn’t notice they were different.


I have been so silly, stupid and have become depressed and having struggled to sleep because of this all. I now feel Paypal will rule against me and ask to me pay money back I no longer have, and then they will bombard me with letters, emails and phone demanding the money back. I worry now my good credit rating will be ruined and it will affect me being ever to buy a my own home! I haven’t been able to discuss this with my partner yet, she will be devastated by it all.

Any guidance will be gratefully received.

Thank you,

soolin

Firstly, double check the address you sent it to against the address that PayPal say is 'OK to send to', are they the same or different. If different , how different, could it be just a local way of writing the same address, for instance my aunt lived in London but insisted her address was Middx which no longer existed. It was the same address though.

For PayPal seller protection you need to send to the address that PayPal gave you, as explained in your email from them and also when you check the transaction in your PayPal account.

However, the 4 instalments needs investigating, I need to check the rules, or find a redular that knows them as in some cases buyers give up buyer protection if they do not pay in one go.

Meanwhile stay vigilant, watch the case, do not under any circumstances allow it to run out of time and be found against you, you need to stay on top of this and deal with it immediately. I'll ask the regulars on the eBay board if they can help work out if the 4 instalments is useful.

soolin

I think this is going to hinge on the address and whether you have full seller protection , however I have found this


https://www.paypal.com/ch/webapps/mpp/ua/buyerprotection-full?locale.x=en_CH

Which states in section 3.4

You must have made the complete purchase price payment from one registered PayPal Account by means of a single payment (no installments, no down payments, no deposits, no deferred payments).

BrownTrout

I.would personally remove any connected cards or bank accounts to your paypal account

RFW

A few questions.


Where was the transaction made? How did you get the customer?



How did you communicate with the buyer? If, as you say, you received a Chinese script address, how did you ask for the English version of the address? If there's a trail via Paypal or some other form that you could show a copy of to Paypal that may help your case.


Have you checked where the item was delivered to? How do you know the two addresses were different?
It could be that a genuine mistake has taken place rather than a scam. I try and work out the easier possibilities first.



Rather than panic too much try and take things slowly and methodically to work out what has happened.


If it is a scam and Paypal do want their money back they aren't going to be able to take it from you in one go. What will happen is your account will go into a negative balance. You would then be able to tell them you are not in a position to pay it back and make them an offer to pay off over a period suitable to you. If anything owing Paypal is better than owing a bank or a credit card company as they aren't able to report to credit reference agencies. At this stage there's no reason to think it will get that far but Paypal are quite limited in their ability to claim back money from you.


If it does proceed in a way you aren't happy with try getting independent advice from the Citizen's Advice or a Debt Helpline.



It's easy for me to say but it isn't worth over worrying about at any stage.

gavinsmith1980

Hello,


Thank you so much for your replies!!



I have double checked the address and it is different from the one on Paypal. So therefore I am guessing I am not covered? Interestingly he also purchased one another item from me via eBay for 99p and that PayPal address was the same as the one he asked vase to be sent too. This item has yet to be sent to him.


Do you think that Paypal will not cover him as he has paid in several instalments? I have until Monday to respond but wanted to respond with some guidance first!


I placed the item on Ebay for 99p with no reserve, then within minutes people were offering me lots to buy it now, that is how I got in contact with the buyer. I sought specialist advice on what the item may be worth and asked for £8,000 and it was paid, but outside of Ebay (Silly I know!!) So commutation was made via ebay and emails, all of which I have. The buyer sent me the address in English and Chinese, only I failed to notice it was not the same as the Paypal address.


I have checked where the item was delivered too and it was the address he gave and signed by someone of that name.


Thanks again for you all of your help so far,

xlnc99

your credit file will not be affected whatever the outcome of this

papaface

I sympathise with you in this situation because PayPal are renowned for siding with the buyer in these circumstances.
Your one hope is that you have tracking information showing that the parcel was signed for and perhaps there's a glimmer of hope that this will be enough to satisfy PayPal. Personally I doubt that it will be enough due to the size of the transactions, PayPal will not want to take the risk.

From my experience even if PayPal do rule in your favour the buyer may still file a chargeback which may filter through to your account and in that situation PayPal WILL return the funds back to the buyer leaving your account with a negative balance. This can take weeks to materialise so it may not happen straight away.

RFW

gavinsmith1980 wrote: »

I placed the item on Ebay for 99p with no reserve, then within minutes people were offering me lots to buy it now, that is how I got in contact with the buyer. I sought specialist advice on what the item may be worth and asked for £8,000 and it was paid, but outside of Ebay (Silly I know!!) So commutation was made via ebay and emails, all of which I have. The buyer sent me the address in English and Chinese, only I failed to notice it was not the same as the Paypal address.

Not to alarm you but you may want to be prepared to be slapped with a charge from Ebay too.


Can you clarify how the instalments were set up. Was it a single transaction that Paypal split up or did the buyer just send you separate transactions?

cymruchris

I don't really have positive words to add - as it seems you might have circumvented a few of the protection procedures, and not followed the proper protocols - and so hope that it'll be a positive outcome. I wanted to add a thought though - for £8k I'd probably want to get onto a plane, and go knock on his door and get my vase back. When dealing internationally you have to be really, really, really careful. I'm sure you'll have learnt this already now, but you'll have to tell your partner, as it's a challenge you're going to have to face together. It's a lot of money - and if they rule against you, it's going to be tough, but it's manageable. It won't destroy your life forever, but it'll certainly be a difficult few months ahead. Just make sure you respond to everything, and if ruled against, try appealing if it's an option, but ultimately whatever is decided you have to work a way of managing it.

soolin

papaface wrote: »

I sympathise with you in this situation because PayPal are renowned for siding with the buyer in these circumstances.
Your one hope is that you have tracking information showing that the parcel was signed for and perhaps there's a glimmer of hope that this will be enough to satisfy PayPal. Personally I doubt that it will be enough due to the size of the transactions, PayPal will not want to take the risk.

From my experience even if PayPal do rule in your favour the buyer may still file a chargeback which may filter through to your account and in that situation PayPal WILL return the funds back to the buyer leaving your account with a negative balance. This can take weeks to materialise so it may not happen straight away.

Please read the OP and the responses, you have misunderstood the situation. PayPal have full seller protection, they don't just pay buyers back where sellers can invoke their PayPal protection, however in this case OP unfortunately did not follow the PayPal instructions and gave up their automatic right to protection.

You mention needing the package signed for, this is clearly stated in the OP as well, and the situation remains that this won't help if the rest of the seller requirements are not followed.

The question here is what happens when it appears that neither buyer nor seller have full protection , and I'm struggling to find anything that can answer that definitely either way.

If this goes to a case of fraudulent transaction further down the line then I suspect buyer would win, as the bank claim of fraud cannot be defended without proof of postage to the address given by PayPal (all that is required for a claim of fraudulent use of funds)