FISTRAL BEACH, Newquay, Inital Parking.. please help!!

Umkomaas

Dear Ashlea Forshaw

Not only do Stuart and Adele display a total misunderstanding of PoFA, more worryingly, so do you.

The law (PoFA Schedule 4 para 9[6]) is very clear that .......

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

The 'second working day' was 18 July 2019, and therefore day 15, one whole day outside the strict requirements of PoFA (the law of this country). Unless Initial Parking is able to 'prove to the contrary', POPLA cannot make any assumptions contrary to the law, doing so not only undermines POPLA's credibility to deal with relatively clear legal points which have important implications for the motorist, but your refusal to overrule your Assessors error, suggests a bias not in the interest of the motorist.

I urge you to re-examine PoFA Schedule 4 para 9[6] and further reconsider what is now a further compounding of the two earlier procedural errors.

Your sincerely

Don't rush to fire this off as others might want to contribute/suggest edits or additions.

DoaM

Some thoughts:

#1 Two working days assumes 1st class post - were the NTKs sent 1st class? (The time line is derived from the Interpretations Act 1978).

#2 Day 14 was the 17th July (based on a contravention date of 3rd July). Therefore the PPC sent the NTK on Day 13 (16th), 2 working days later (as proved by receipt date of 18th July) shows that the NTK was received on Day 15 ... therefore out of time.

#3 PoFA is clear that 2 working days does not include the day of posting. (on the second working day after the day on which it is posted)

#4 Unless the contrary is proved ... all parties are accepting that the NTK was received on the 18th July, therefore it is an irrelevance anyway as it was delivered on the 2nd working day after posting. (17th was the 1st working day).

KeithP

DoaM wrote: »

#1 Two working days assumes 1st class post - were the NTKs sent 1st class? (The time line is derived from the Interpretations Act 1978).

Whilst it might be based on The Interpretations Act, what the Interpretations Act may say on the subject is unimportant.

Umkomaas has quoted the relevant paragraph from POFA and there is no mention in POFA about 1st or 2nd Class Post.

Fruitcake

Yet again PoPLA are fixating on the word "sent" and not on the words "given" or "received."

Ashlea agrees that the NTK was "sent" on day 13, but has completely missed the fact that the Act, (the Law) states it is deemed to have been "given" or "received" on day 15.

In addition, she has not addressed the complaint that Stuart used the words, "working days" when that part of the act says "days". There is a big difference.
Not only did Stuart misunderstand the Law, but Ashlea failed to understand that Stuart misunderstood it.

Another complaint is needed addressed to the lead adjudicator only.
That's now three assessors who do not understand the law!

Umkomaas

This is just so disturbing. 'Overseeing' Assessors seem more concerned with covering the backs of their buddy colleagues than performing any form of impartial overview! Hanging the motorist out to dry and left at the mercy of the PPC and their roboclaim solicitors.

Stinks.

Fruitcake

KeithP wrote: »

Whilst it might be based on The Interpretations Act, what the Interpretations Act may say on the subject is unimportant.

Umkomaas has quoted the relevant paragraph from POFA and there is no mention in POFA about 1st or 2nd Class Post.

The Interpretation Act refers to any Act where documents are sent, served, or given by post, therefore the PoFA is included.

The Practice Direction then refers to 1st and 2nd class post and when it is deemed to have been delivered.

Interpretation Act 1978
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression ” give ” or ” send ” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Practice Direction [1985] 1 All ER 889 states that, unless the contrary is proved, First class mail is deemed delivered on the second working day after posting, and Second class the fourth working day after posting. “Working Day” means Monday to Friday not including Bank Holidays.

This means the PoFA isn't the only regulation that applies when documents are posted.

dufflers

Email this whole debacle to watchdog, if they pick it up i'm sure there are plenty of people that have lost at POPLA who could do with seeing this

Unbelievable that you would have to spoon feed the correct outcome to an "independent" service like this..

MinnieSox9

Okay so I sent the original complaint for the attention of John Gallagar, should I just reply to the email I got sent back from Ashlea?

MinnieSox9

Thoughts? Combining your amazing knowledges together!!

Dear Ashlea Forshaw

Not only do Stuart and Adele display a total misunderstanding of PoFA, more worryingly, so do you.

The law (PoFA Schedule 4 para 9[6]) is very clear that .......
(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.
The 'second working day' was 18 July 2019, and therefore day 15, one whole day outside the strict requirements of PoFA (the law of this country). Unless Initial Parking is able to 'prove to the contrary', POPLA cannot make any assumptions contrary to the law, doing so not only undermines POPLA's credibility to deal with relatively clear legal points which have important implications for the motorist, but your refusal to overrule your Assessors error, suggests a bias not in the interest of the motorist.

I urge you to re-examine PoFA Schedule 4 para 9[6] and further reconsider what is now a further compounding of the two earlier procedural errors.

In regards to the timeline; ‘The Interpretation Act’ refers to any Act where documents are sent, served, or given by post, therefore the PoFA is included.

Interpretation Act 1978
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression ” give ” or ” send ” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

Practice Direction [1985] 1 All ER 889 states that, unless the contrary is proved, First class mail is deemed delivered on the second working day after posting, and Second class the fourth working day after posting. “Working Day” means Monday to Friday not including Bank Holidays.

This means the PoFA isn't the only regulation that applies when documents are posted.

Your sincerely

Fruitcake

You should highlight in bold the parts about, "unless the contrary is proved" as well as words like, given, and delivered.

You should be sending your complaint to Mr Gallagher, lead adjudicator, and marked for the addressee only.

The complaint is about Ashley and Co, not to them so you need to change your draft above accordingly.

Also mention the fact that Stuart referred to "working days" when that part of the PoFA only mentions "days". This is at best a misunderstanding of the law, and at worst, a deliberate misinterpretation of it.

All three assessors should be retrained and not allowed to deal with any more cases until they can demonstrate they have learned to count and learned to understand the law of the land.
Do not use the word urge, but instead suggest the three assessors be retrained.