Should I challenge this postal PCN?

Coupon-mad

KeithP wrote: »

<cough> who pays the non-domestic rates.

Whoops! Put it right now.

In my defence, I've been to the gym, knackered now and need to eat something!

TrixA

Le_Kirk wrote: »

First off, I would suggest frustration of contract as the supplied method of payment by the PPC failed dismally.

I’m just struggling to see how we would prove that we attempted to pay. I read the POPLA guidance and it stresses evidence. There’s only the witness statement from the business that’s been suggested but may be difficult to obtain. We can point to the dire user reviews on the App as evidence that it’s not fit for purpose but that doesn’t prove we had a specific issue on the date in question. I’m really kicking myself for not having taken any screenshots of the payment error messages. I’ve logged into the app but it doesn’t appear to have retained any details.

Coupon-mad

I’m just struggling to see how we would prove that we attempted to pay.

This is your problem and this is why I steered you away from appealing like that! You can't prove you tried & the app failed, unless your phone has retained some data of the apps visited, but you say not.

That's why you need what I told you to get, as proof that you parked elsewhere. POPLA want to see that. You could lose otherwise.

None of this matters till POPLA stage but don't rush the first appeal, give yourself weeks to get an email confirming that a staff member saw you that day (make sure they name the date) and said 'blah blah' and you then parked elsewhere, and this is a constant headache to this business...

Go in person (park somewhere else) and chat to someone about giving you such an email, and you might be pleasantly surprised that they are on your side and that I'm right that this is a headache to them and well known as an issue. You want an email that confirms these facts, to tip the evidence in your favour.

And why not try to use the app while there (I don't mean park there, and I don't mean go through with payment!). I mean, reconstruct the error with the app by a passenger with you, filming the location, then zooming in on your phone as you try a similar attempt to pay that also shows the app failing again, and maybe you grumbling 'not again - this app never works!' in the background.

That's evidence for POPLA too.

Oh, and get some snaps of the signs and instructions about using the app, while there.

TrixA

Coupon-mad wrote: »

This is your problem and this is why I steered you away from appealing like that! You can't prove you tried & the app failed, unless your phone has retained some data of the apps visited, but you say not.

That's why you need what I told you to get, as proof that you parked elsewhere. POPLA want to see that. You could lose otherwise.

None of this matters till POPLA stage but don't rush the first appeal, give yourself weeks to get an email confirming that a staff member saw you that day (make sure they name the date) and said 'blah blah' and you then parked elsewhere, and this is a constant headache to this business...

Go in person (park somewhere else) and chat to someone about giving you such an email, and you might be pleasantly surprised that they are on your side and that I'm right that this is a headache to them and well known as an issue. You want an email that confirms these facts, to tip the evidence in your favour.

And why not try to use the app while there (I don't mean park there, and I don't mean go through with payment!). I mean, reconstruct the error with the app by a passenger with you, filming the location, then zooming in on your phone as you try a similar attempt to pay that also shows the app failing again, and maybe you grumbling 'not again - this app never works!' in the background.

That's evidence for POPLA too.

Oh, and get some snaps of the signs and instructions about using the app, while there.

I like your idea about recreating the error but it occurred at the final “pay now” stage, so if it happened to work I’d end up actually paying them.

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...you could try one for the minimum stay, 50p?

TrixA

We just realised today that the discount period had expired (PCN was issued 30 June but for some reason took more than a week to get to us in the post) so we’re going to go ahead and appeal it on the grounds we have nothing to lose.

Just a question about the template letter, what’s the rationale for asking them to supply additional photos, images of signage etc at this stage? I’m not sure why they’d be under any obligation to provide this to me? If I wanted to argue that the signage was inadequate I would probably be better to go there and take some photos myself? I saw from the POPLA thread that someone recently won an appeal against this company on the basis the penalty charge was buried in the fine print, and I’m pretty sure the signage was similar on the site I parked at...

KeithP

TrixA wrote: »

Just a question about the template letter, what’s the rationale for asking them to...<snip the rest>

The rationale is that quite often the unchanged template works.

You are of course free to send anything you like.

It may not make any difference what you send. It is widely thought that PPCs seldom read the appeals anyway.

TrixA

KeithP wrote: »

The rationale is that quite often the unchanged template works.

You are of course free to send anything you like.

It may not make any difference what you send. It is widely thought that PPCs seldom read the appeals anyway.

Really? I thought it was virtually certain the PPC would reject my initial appeal, and that was the reason for the template approach in the first place? But now you're saying it sometimes works on its own?

The only reason I can think of for asking for the additional photos etc is to make the PPC think I'm a pain and the case will be too time consuming to pursue, but that only makes sense if they are under some obligation to actually provide the information.

Quentin

The template is tried and tested


But up to you to decide whether to use it or plough your own furrow

KeithP

TrixA wrote: »

I thought it was virtually certain the PPC would reject my initial appeal...

If you thought that, why are we even discussing the content?