LBC stage but who is my parking contract with?

Surferone

If anyone’s reading and thanks for those who replied, I’m a bit confused as to what Armtrac (in this instance) offer to a person parking the car? I.e what service are they providing to me as a consumer, if as appears, the landowner operates the pay and display machines?
If, for example, I didn’t pay the pay and display charge then I’m putting the landowner out of pocket and he should pursue me if he wants paying. If the landowner is permitting me to park, I can’t see what Armtrac are offering. I understand this might sound stupid, but I’m still getting my head around all this.

Redx

the landowner is employing Armtrac to monitor their car park and enforce the parking rules (assuming that Armtrac are getting no revenue from the machines of course)

meaning Armtrac make their money by ticketing "offenders" , which is a standard business model on free and p & d car parks

usually the PPC offers their services to the landowner for free, so they can prey on the transgressors who use the car park and abuse the rules (or are perceived to abuse the parking rules)

not sure why you cannot understand this simple concept ?

parking is being offered for a price and Armtrac signs are up to enforce the rules which they are doing as a third party contractor on behalf of the landowner

if Armtrac were getting the parking revenue as well, then they would benefit from both business models , payment and punishment

its no different to paying for deliveroo through an app to order and deliver a meal, and for deliveroo to pass it to a third party contractor to deliver it as ordered

or you order a ticket from ticketmaster, pay by paypal and get to the venue and obtain your entry ticket from the staff at the venue , but you abide by the rules of the venue or you get kicked out by third party security for playing a vuvuzela whilst the orchestra is playing to the crowd

the who does what could be a bit murky but its all similar , payment , acceptance , abide by the rules or suffer the consequences

by paying to park, you are not trespassing because you are invited by the signs to park and to pay for the period of parking

Barry Beavis parked on a free car park owned by the B A Pension Fund , leased by Parking Eye , overstayed the free 2 hour limit, and lost in 3 courts because he broke the parking rules on the signs posted by P.E.

B A P F got nothing out of it apart from the money for the lease per annum

Surferone

Thank you,
‘not sure why you cannot understand this simple concept ?
I do and the ticket master/vuvuzela was particularly good.

I suppose my simpler question is; who takes me to court ( if they do). Armtrac not landowner I presume as it’s the PPC who believe I have breached their contract.
Through my reading in various forums I thought the landowner had to take me to court.
I’ve read up on the Beavis case and although the contractual situation is different, the judges new approach to contracts and penalties is concerning.

Redx

Landowners rarely take people to court on parking matters, it would normally be trespass but it's a rarity

It is the PPC who do so, as the parking contractor, so in your case Armtrac would be the claimant

parking eye used to issue about thirty thousand claims a year in the small claims court, at the moment it's ukcpm , Brittania , VCS , Excel , Minster Baywatch , P. Eye and a few others, whereas some don't seem to try at all

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Surferone

I wrote to my MP last week who responded immediately and agreed that he was aware of rogue (his words) PPCs and their debt collectors and offered to help me.

Surferone

I thought i should update as I have had a letter from Northampton court business etc.. I’d hoped my MP intervening had made this go away but after 4 months of silence, here I am.
I’ll be dealing with tha claim shortly, but I have a question about defence which I’m not sure existing sticky’s/Newbie section clarifies.
In the claimants Particulars of Claim bwlegal have used the general ‘..PCN contravention...etc’ but provided the judge with no further details of the contravention (upside down ticket, not clearly displayed).
I’m aware that I only get one defence, so do I phrase my defence around the usual ‘fluttering ticket approach’ and so forth, or should I say that I cannot reasonably defend against such a vaguely phrased claim by the Claimant? Or include both?

The_Deep

I would include both.

Surferone

Thanks, I wasn’t sure as by defending myself ref the upside down ticket I am in essence doing the claimants job for them by outlining the contravention alleged.

Le_Kirk

What was on the original PCN? How do you know it was a fluttering ticket?