Avoiding care home fees.

lisyloo

BML wrote: »

Care homes are a growth industry and many in the South of England charge in excess of £1,000.00 a week, pay minimum wage and employ second rate managers yet at the same time claim they are being pauperized. Maybe the industry should be handed back to Local Authorities.

There are loads in Bristol (south of England) that charge less than that and also Banes (Jacob Rees mob territory).
My MIL pays £925.
Should we give the usual harsh advice at this point of “move north”?

What hasn’t been pointed out so far is that if you leave the funding up to the local authority then not only could you be in an awful place but also it will at the last minute, for example when you’ve had a fall and your partner (probably elderly too) will be expected to assist up until they are at breaking point.
Don’t expect to be kept together as a couple if you both live a long time. My MIL and FIL were going to be split up to save a few quid after 60 years of marriage despite a place being available at her LA funded care home. We appealed and won but only because they had fierce and effective advocates on their side.

Why on earth anyone would wish this upon themselves is beyond me.

The LA will expect you to struggle with family help (from elderly spouse as main carer) and carers at home until you literally drop (it’s often a fall that ends this phase).

So be careful what you wish for.

As a daughter in law I am helping my MIL use her money to keep her as well and as happy as she can be (unfortunately she’s getting past shopping trips now, but can still have manicures and hair done).

lisyloo

jackieblack wrote: »

Is that really who you want to be looking after your elderly/vulnerable family members?
People who can’t get any other job and who don’t want to work? Doing the bare minimum they can get away with, with no care or enthusiasm at all?
:eek:

I certainly wouldn’t!

They also need to be quite fit and well to be on their feet for 12 hours and be reliable.
It’s not a job for anyone that’s workshy.
They need to be constantly patient, encouraging and friendly in sometimes challenging circumstances.

BML

When I retired I worked for the Ambulance Car Service as an unpaid volunteer although they did pay petrol money. Much of my work was taking people from Local Authority Care Homes and private ones and I never came across what you described so our county must have been different.

lisyloo

BML wrote: »

When I retired I worked for the Ambulance Car Service as an unpaid volunteer although they did pay petrol money. Much of my work was taking people from Local Authority Care Homes and private ones and I never came across what you described so our county must have been different.

Which point are you replying to.
What is it you never came across?

BML

In conclusion may I suggest that this post has seen a full discussion and should be brought to a conclusion. The conclusion I would propose is that a government enquiry should be held into care for the elderly, sick or some other term with a broad terms of reference. Like global warming we are running out of time.

spadoosh

BML wrote: »

Care homes are a growth industry and many in the South of England charge in excess of £1,000.00 a week, pay minimum wage and employ second rate managers yet at the same time claim they are being pauperized. Maybe the industry should be handed back to Local Authorities.

Average profit margin of a care home is 12-15%.

Non financial corporations is about 13%
Manufacturing comapnies are about 15%
Service companies are about 17%.

You take the risk of investing whats typically millions in a highly regulated sector, where expectations will never be met for a return of 12%. Theres easier ways of making money.

Domiciliary (community) care is a different story.

The UKHCA account for a profit margin of about 2.9% when working out the recommended hourly rates for local authorities, taking in to account the need to pay living wage, pensions, regulation and typical business costs. The hourly rate they recommend (bear in mind this report cover figures from 2017) is £18.01. My local authority pay less than £15 per hour.

spadoosh

BML wrote: »

In conclusion may I suggest that this post has seen a full discussion and should be brought to a conclusion. The conclusion I would propose is that a government enquiry should be held into care for the elderly, sick or some other term with a broad terms of reference. Like global warming we are running out of time.

They regularly do this.

I can already tell you the findings of their next report which they havent started to look at yet. Social care needs more money.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/communities-and-local-government-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/long-term-funding-of-adult-social-care-17-19/

and.....

https://news.sky.com/story/billions-needed-now-to-raise-adult-social-care-standards-say-peers-11756329

Gavin83

Dymphna60 wrote: »

Maybe a solution will come along with the lack of new antibiotics being developed and once again “the old mans friend “ will take us when acceptable life is over

This is a fair point. We're not that far off the point that antibiotics will no longer work. At that point illnesses that are considered fairly low key at the moment will become killers and it'll primarily be the elderly that'll die on mass. We'll probably see average life expectancy start to reduce.

At least it'll solve this issue.

lisyloo wrote: »

What hasn’t been pointed out so far is that if you leave the funding up to the local authority then not only could you be in an awful place but also it will at the last minute, for example when you’ve had a fall and your partner (probably elderly too) will be expected to assist up until they are at breaking point.

This is true as well. Most state funded care home residents are placed there way beyond the point they should be and once all other avenues have been exhausted. If paying privately it gives you the option of point of entry as well as where you're going.

lisyloo wrote: »

We appealed and won but only because they had fierce and effective advocates on their side.

This really isn't the case. The LA might fight your corner a little more but ultimately you're still relying on the care home accepting the council rate. If they refuse you're stuck.

The LA, except in exceptional circumstances will not pay the top up fee and will not allow you to refuse all placements.

pelirocco

BML wrote: »

So do you think that someone on minimum wage should pay higher taxes so that whoever you choose can have an inheritance?
No, I just think that matters such as care homes should be financed by central taxation.

Good idea , perhaps you would please pay over the extra tax you should have been paying to cover this ?

lisyloo

Gavin83 wrote: »

This is a fair point. We're not that far off the point that antibiotics will no longer work. At that point illnesses that are considered fairly low key at the moment will become killers and it'll primarily be the elderly that'll die on mass. We'll probably see average life expectancy start to reduce.

At least it'll solve this issue.

I’m not so sure about that.
My MiL has been in a home for 2 years and has had no colds and only 1 UTI.
They are kept clean, well nourished and well fed and staff or visitors with colds/illnesses are kept out.
So they survive pretty well.
Yes some would die sooner (assuming we don’t find solutions) but it’s not a silver bullet and can hardly be relied upon as public policy (let’s hope they all die early).

This really isn't the case. The LA might fight your corner a little more but ultimately you're still relying on the care home accepting the council rate. If they refuse you're stuck.
The LA, except in exceptional circumstances will not pay the top up fee and will not allow you to refuse all placements.

We’ve had 2 parents go in above the LA rate now.
It helped (us) that they were both bed blocking in hospital as I’m told LAs can be heavily penalised (fined) If they leave people in hosptial too long.
However you are aiding my point that there is a high risk of being split up as a married couple.
We were lucky that a place happened to be available.
If youre not paying then as well as the risk of the LA wanting to send you somewhere cheaper there is an (high) additional risk of the 2nd spouse not finding availability at the same place.

Why would anyone wish this on themselves?
Only if they don’t understand the risks IMO.