Avoiding care home fees.

p00hsticks

BML wrote: »

The state paying for your care home costs could be financed by central taxation that everyone pays in the same way that the NHS is financed from central taxation why is that so wrong?

Because that means that taxes would need to rise considerably.

Personally I wouldn't want to see my children paying an extortionate amount of tax to fund the retirement care of people who have the money to pay for it themselves.

onwards&upwards

Lets pay for it out of a 75% inheritance tax! OP will be happy with that i’m Sure.

peachyprice

BML wrote: »

We live in one of the richest countries in the world and people should not have to make the sort of decisions you had to. I would be surprised if your father was different to me in my wish to leave what I worked for to our children rather than have the state take it.

Oh, !!!!!!, the 'state' dont' take it.

The equity in your asset is used to fund your care home, the house you can no longer live in because you are too unwell pays for the home you will move to and receive the appropriate care. Any value left over once you die forms part of your estate. Where does 'The State' take your home?

I hope your children know and accept that you're expecting them to leave you festering in a council run care home just so they get a windfall.

getmore4less

Browntoa wrote: »

It can still be construed as deprivation of assets and challenged if there is a suspicion it was purely to hide/dispose of assets

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-4263724/Can-avoid-council-care-home-costs-trust.html

Tenants in common with IPDI trust the deceased spouses share that the survivor has a life interest in can't be touched.

Does not solve the problem of both needing care while both alive.

The way to deal with that is to liquidate everything and spend everything do you have nothing left to pay for the care.

gettingtheresometime

BML wrote: »

The state paying for your care home costs could be financed by central taxation that everyone pays in the same way that the NHS is financed from central taxation why is that so wrong?

And that's a shining example of everyone having first class care isn't it?


(not NHS bashing but just pointing out that paying for something out of central taxation doesn't always provide the utopia that the OP seems to think it does)

spadoosh

BML wrote: »

The state paying for your care home costs could be financed by central taxation that everyone pays in the same way that the NHS is financed from central taxation why is that so wrong?

Its wrong because you completely failed to plan for any care you might need as you age. Because you failed to plan you expect others to pay for you to be looked after so you can give some money to your children. You want to take money away from me and thus my child so you can keep it for yourself and leave it to your children when you die.

Can you explain how you think that is right?

And no doubt you have the audacity to suggest my generation is one of entitlement.

Gavin83

BML wrote: »

The state paying for your care home costs could be financed by central taxation that everyone pays in the same way that the NHS is financed from central taxation why is that so wrong?

So you are happy to pay more tax to fund care home placements for everyone? It will certainly leave you worse off and almost certainly your children too but I can understand that opinion.

Care home placements and general NHS care are not the same thing. You can't really get a cancer patient to sell their house, there's a fair chance they'll return to it. The elderly entering a care home won't.

I can understand the opinion that care homes should be funded from tax. However it doesn't sit right with me that someone should sit on valuable assets they don't need in order to pass it onto undeserving children while the taxpayer picks up the cost.

After all properties don't have to be sold for care. The children can provide the care and then the asset remains safe. Most don't wish to do this however.

onwards&upwards wrote: »

Lets pay for it out of a 75% inheritance tax! OP will be happy with that i’m Sure.

If care home placements were funded by the Government I expect this is the route they'd take. Reduce the tax free inheritance allowance to zero and increase the tax to at least 50%. The other alternative is a large increase on council tax.

In all honesty it won't change anyway. People like the idea of the state covering care fees but if they attempted to implement a policy to actually make this the case people would be against it. The above wouldn't be popular for example.

BML

So you are happy to pay more tax to fund care home placements for everyone? It will certainly leave you worse off and almost certainly your children too but I can understand that opinion.

I don’t mind that if paying more tax to fund care home placements does mean that I was left worse off.

Care home placements and general NHS care are not the same thing. You can't really get a cancer patient to sell their house, there's a fair chance they'll return to it. The elderly entering a care home won't.

Care home placements and general NHS care may not be the same thing but perhaps they should be although the care home situation should possibly be managed by social services departments.

I can understand the opinion that care homes should be funded from tax. However it doesn't sit right with me that someone should sit on valuable assets they don't need in order to pass it onto undeserving children while the taxpayer picks up the cost.
But these assets are my assets and the individual should be entitled to determine what happens to them.

After all properties don't have to be sold for care. The children can provide the care and then the asset remains safe. Most don't wish to do this however.

The children can provide the care! Certainly not. The state has to accept that they need to fund such care.

Lets pay for it out of a 75% inheritance tax! OP will be happy with that i’m Sure.
I believe that certainly for the rich, inheritance tax is a voluntary tax and so it should be for all.

If care home placements were funded by the Government I expect this is the route they'd take. Reduce the tax free inheritance allowance to zero and increase the tax to at least 50%. The other alternative is a large increase on council tax.

The first thing that needs to be done is to stop Boris’s plan to fill his mates pockets with money.

In all honesty it won't change anyway. People like the idea of the state covering care fees but if they attempted to implement a policy to actually make this the case people would be against it. The above wouldn't be popular for example.

“People would be against it.” Possibly so but our “Democratic parliament would do as normal ignore them.

spadoosh

BML wrote: »

So you are happy to pay more tax to fund care home placements for everyone? It will certainly leave you worse off and almost certainly your children too but I can understand that opinion.

I don’t mind that if paying more tax to fund care home placements does mean that I was left worse off.

Care home placements and general NHS care are not the same thing. You can't really get a cancer patient to sell their house, there's a fair chance they'll return to it. The elderly entering a care home won't.

Care home placements and general NHS care may not be the same thing but perhaps they should be although the care home situation should possibly be managed by social services departments.

I can understand the opinion that care homes should be funded from tax. However it doesn't sit right with me that someone should sit on valuable assets they don't need in order to pass it onto undeserving children while the taxpayer picks up the cost.
But these assets are my assets and the individual should be entitled to determine what happens to them.

After all properties don't have to be sold for care. The children can provide the care and then the asset remains safe. Most don't wish to do this however.

The children can provide the care! Certainly not. The state has to accept that they need to fund such care.

Lets pay for it out of a 75% inheritance tax! OP will be happy with that i’m Sure.
I believe that certainly for the rich, inheritance tax is a voluntary tax and so it should be for all.

If care home placements were funded by the Government I expect this is the route they'd take. Reduce the tax free inheritance allowance to zero and increase the tax to at least 50%. The other alternative is a large increase on council tax.

The first thing that needs to be done is to stop Boris’s plan to fill his mates pockets with money.

In all honesty it won't change anyway. People like the idea of the state covering care fees but if they attempted to implement a policy to actually make this the case people would be against it. The above wouldn't be popular for example.

“People would be against it.” Possibly so but our “Democratic parliament would do as normal ignore them.

Care homes are worth some £16bn a year. Spread that among the 31 million tax payers and its £512 extra in taxation per person per year just to accomodate those who are in care homes now. Tell everyone its free to go in and you can at least expect it to double. Personally i think itd be closer to 10x more popular.

People get irate that the queen costs them a £1 a year.

Your thinking is bizarre.

I mean everyone should get free mansions, its not fair they dont, they pay taxes and do things. They deserve mansions. And mansions for their kids. And healthcare. And pensions and all of the buenos. All of them. Of course its be lovely if everyone got what they wanted but then i want to be an F1 driver and simultaneously not have to work or be famous. You can instantly rule out a few of them because they just arent compatible.

Free at the point of use care homes isnt compatible with our tax system or willingness to pay for it.

BML

Spadoosh, You state, "Free at the point of use care homes isnt compatible with our tax system or willingness to pay for it."
I'm in my mid eighties and apart from being hard of hearing and diabetic reasonably fit but I no longer manage a four mile a day run. I have a better understanding of the care industry than most in that when I retired I undertook a course of training organised by our Local Authority and as a retired HR Manager I was not impressed with the performance of the care home I did my placement with. One of my daughters works as a care assistant and the management she experiences appalls me. Yet all round the area that I live in new care homes are springing up most staffed by utter incompetents. However, we are obliged to accept that the elderly population is increasing so something has to be done and I believe that such an exercise can only be managed by Government supported by central taxation if those of the elderly population are to be cared for in a civilized manner.
If you disagree then please offer an alternative.