PCN - Park Inn by Radisson Hotel London - Access Road

nosferatu1001

They have 30 days, they dont have to acknowledge it.

I presume that is the DPOs email?

don9999

That's what I wasn't sure about.


I discussed with NCP and they told me I had to email that address.
Maybe I should look for details of their DPO and email directly, if is different.

In any case, if they have 30 days, I need to submit my appeal to POPLA before that, so can't wait :-(


My appeal 'should' just be around the fact that my car was parked in a a DIFFERENT car park from the one they are trying to charge me for!
I could mention that I have proof (although I don't actually have it yet) - I CAN provide the booking ref/details for the NCP car park though.

Do I STILL need to send a full (near-standard) template appeal 'as well'?
eg. Inadequate signs
Driver unidentified
No evidence of Land Owner Authority
No evidence of period parked
Unreliable ANPR

etc. etc...

I can understand the point of making it long with images etc...
But I wonder whether it might divert attention from the simple fact that I was in a DIFFERENT car park at the time! That 'should' be sufficient evidence, and I would be totally comfortable with that defence in front of people eg. in court.

nosferatu1001

This isnt court, its POPLA

Tried and tested is such for a reason. You just make sure the FIRST appeal point is that your vehicle wasnt where they claim it was.

don9999

Thanks. I will do that :-) Appreciate the advice.

I will prepare a full POPLA appeal, including all relevant issues.

Should I still include a section about the 'Inadequate Signs'?
Might it ever be used against me that I am considering the signs in so much detail when in fact I am claiming that my car did not even park in their car parks, so the driver would not have been even looking at their signs (which they did not). I just want to make sure I don't inadvertently give them ammunition against me.


I'm thinking:
* Car was parked in a DIFFERENT car park, not theirs!
(With annotated pictures and photographs)
* Driver not identified
* No evidence of period parked
* Unreliable ANPR
* No details of how ANPR being used
* Complaint about their ANPR even taking pictures of a car 'passing by' that had NOTHING to do with them or their car park!
* No evidence of Land Owner Authority

Just not sure about documenting the inadequate signage which would be of no concern to someone not even considering parking in their car park.

I will post a draft of my POPLA appeal on here for review before sending :-)

Fruitcake

It is quite reasonable for a motorist to revisit the site of an alleged parking event to gather information. This would explain why they have detailed knowledge of the site and signage. Indeed, doing subsequent research of the site would be done in much more detail than a motorist just following direction signs on the date of the alleged event.

Definitely include the Inadequate Signage point and state there is nothing warning a motorist they will get a PCN for passing a couple of unrelated cameras to park in a competitor's car park.

PoPLA codes last 32 days, so you should delay as long as possible just in case NCP come up with the goods.

fisherjim

POPLA isn't concerned with what happened on the day, the procedure is supposed to give the PPC judgement over that and any mitigation.


The reality is that you are dealing with greedy scammers that won't even consider those points, their business plan is to carry on with threats with their fingers in their ears and blindfold on, it makes more sense to carry on demanding payment, in the hope you just give up.


POPLA is supposed to look into the way they operate technically, lawfully, and to the COP of their ATA.


If NCP come up with their evidence that you parked in their car park fro X to Y that's great.


In the mean time you should be gathering all the other POPLA points together, and also put PE to strict proof that they have evidence you parked in their access road not just a time span, pointing out the pitfalls of unreliable ANPR.

don9999

Thanks Fruitcake and fisherjim.
I am already preparing my Appeal (I am up to 16 pages so far, but only about half way through).

Regarding signage:
I will also include comments about the NtK referring to '...entering the Park Inn by Radisson Hotel & Conference Centre London - Access Road car park....'.
Yet it is far from clear where this 'Park Inn by Radisson Hotel & Conference Centre London - Access Road car park' is actually situated.
Is it the 'main car park' that is referred to in the only sign that you see when entering the Access Road? (It is a limited sign saying boldly 'Strictly no parking/waiting at any time' and then 'Parking is available in the main car park - parking tarrifs apply')
Or is the Access Road a 'car park' in its own right?
If it is the latter, then surely additional signage would be required all along the Access Road stating this fact. If it is the former, or, the Access road is NOT a car park at all, then why does the NtK refer to entering ‘….the Park Inn by Radisson Hotel & Conference Centre London – Access Road car park’?

The NtK goes on to say:
'The signage, which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park, states that this is private land and that the car park is managed by ParkingEye Ltd. In addition the signage states that, as a permit only/authorised parking only car park, a Parking Charge is applicable if the motorist fails to obtain a valid permit/authorisation. The signage also contrains further terms and conditions associated with this car park by which those who park in the car park agree to be bound'

So...the PCN is presumably referring to failing to park within the car park in accordance with T&Cs. But WHICH car park? They have no evidence of me entering the 'main car park' (discussed in a separate section of my appeal), so does this mean the Access Road IS a car park?
The PCN appears to conflict with itself as to whether the Access Road is a Car Park or not.....
If it IS a Car Park - where are the signs saying so?
If it is NOT a Car Park - then why have I been sent a PCN for 'entering...the car park'?

I'm not yet exactly sure how to document this....am still looking for any other similar cases of a PCN on an 'access road' rather than a car park itself.

don9999

OK, I have completed my first DRAFT POPLA appeal document :-)
21 pages, but I still think there is a little more to add.


Not sure how I'm supposed to post it here for review...

It's a Word document, containing many images. I understand that I convert it to a .pdf file for submitting to POPLA, but that's not for a few weeks yet.

Do I just copy/paste from the Word Document (although presumbaly the images won't get included then).

KeithP

Host it on somewhere like Dropbox and post a link to it here.

don9999

OK, I have converted my draft Word document to a .pdf file and uploaded it to Dropbox.




Note that sections 1,2,4,7 are written completely new by me, specific to my case.
All other sections are essentially taken from templates, with minor alterations where necessary to apply to my case.

I think I may need to add a little more - probably more about the signage within/around the car park (although I never actually even entered the car park!)

At the moment, I have referred to me having 'photographs of my car entering and leaving the NCP car park' - although I don't actually have them yet, and 'may' not get them before I have to submit the appeal.

Any other suggestions gratefully received.
I still have several weeks before I submit my POPLA appeal.