PCN - Park Inn by Radisson Hotel London - Access Road

don9999

Yes, thanks.

Have also made a request to NCP for 'their' photographic evidence too :-)
Took your advice yesterday.
(Unfortunately, after I had already made my complaints)

fisherjim

NCP will have ANPR records from their barriers of exactly when the vehicle entered and left their car park.

don9999

Just found another post titled 'POPLA appeal against Parking Eye Unsuccessful. Park Inn Access Road Heathrow' which appears to describe the very same access road that I travelled along. However, this case was back in 2016, and it appears (though not definite) that the poster actually parked/waited on the access road.
In my case, the car only travelled along it to get to the NCP car park behind the hotel.

I'm relying on the fact that NCP 'will' supply with me photographic evidence of my car entering/leaving the NCP car park. I made an official PCR request to the email advised [EMAIL="cctvpcn@ncp.co.uk"]cctvpcn@ncp.co.uk[/EMAIL].
Do they have a specific time limit to send this to me?

Today I received my (expected) notice of unsuccessful appeal from ParkingEye along with POPLA reference. I believe I now have 28 days to make POPLA appeal.
(I wish I had taken my time in making the inital appeal to ParkingEye. Oh well...)

When (if?) I get the photographic evidence from NCP, I am assuming it is then a slam-dunk appeal to POPLA. Once I prove my car was parked in the NCP car park for 8 hours, ParkingEye can NOT presumably then continue to claim that it was parked in 'their' car park for 8 hours too. (It simply travelled along a side road to the NCP car park).

I am continuing to read through the numerous posts on here and sample POPLA appeals, but am hoping that with NCP photographic evidence I don't have to go the extra effort of listing things about poor signage etc. etc...

Or do I....?

KeithP

What's going on here?

You say you sent a PCR request to cctvpcn@ncp.co.uk.

What is a PCR request?

You go on to tell us that ParkingEye have turned down your appeal.

Who exactly is the private parking company involved?

Coupon-mad

P/Eye are the PPC who issued the PCN.

But the OP drove through the P/Eye site past the cameras, and parked in the adjacent NCP car park. So they need the NCP images to prove to POPLA where the car was!

don9999

Thanks for clarification Coupon-Mad :-) You are correct.


MY error saying PCR (no idea where that came from).
'Meant' to say SAR !
Doh.....

fisherjim

This case intrigues me and I think I have worked out what has happened here.


My theory is that this is just another case of double dip by a different guise, let me explain:


If you look on the NCP site for this car park there is a video showing how to find the car park half way down this page:-


https://www.ncp.co.uk/find-a-car-park/car-parks/heathrow-flightpath/


As you enter the access road there is a Parking Eye anpr camera high up on a pole on the right, this no doubt clocks time on site including all access roads.


As you pass the Park Inn car park on the right there is another anpr pole on the left trained on that car park, obviously you can disregard that one.


When you get to the NCP access bridge there is another anpr pole trained on the bridge, which I believe is supposed to white list any vehicle that has crossed the bridge.



I am sure what has happened here is that last anpr camera has missed the OP crossing the bridge, and the first camera has simply auto issued a charge.


Another PE anpr failure even after their 19 (cough) point checklist.


They cannot possibly produce any evidence of parking on their controlled part of this site, it is disgusting how the OP is being relentlessly pursued over this.

don9999

Good theory fisherjim.
Though I think it is slightly different.
I have attached the photos they sent me on the PCN:


http://i67.tinypic.com/k32jux.jpg


I have also attached a birds-eye view of the location, marking certain key locations:
* Orange arrows showing the large, prominent NCP signs indicating direction to the NCP car park
(These signs were followed to the car park, without the car stopping/parking on the access road)
* Green crosses showing the ANPR cameras which I believe were the ones that took photos of my car
The one on the left taking a picture of the car front as it arrived and the one on the right taking a picture of the car rear as it left
* Black rectangles showing where I believe my car was when the photos were taken


http://i68.tinypic.com/21jqbg4.jpg


On the 'arrival' photo, the car is straddling a line that goes across the road - this matches with the Google Maps close-up view of the road where I have marked the left rectangle. There is also a light patch on the road near the right-front wheel which also matches that car position.
There IS an ANPR camera where I have marked a green X pointing out at towards that junction.



On the 'departure' photo, there is a vertical line just to the right of the vehicle and parallel to the cetre white line. You can also see double-yellow lines on the other side of the road. Again, this matches the Google Maps close-up view of the road where I have marked the right rectangle.
Again, there IS an ANPR camera pointing out along the road from where I have marked the second green cross.



So....they have photographed my car arriving on to the access road, and then photographed it again some 8 hours later, leaving along that access road in the other direction.
Both photos are clearly taken on an open road, there are clearly no parking space lines visible.


I am amazed by this situation on many fronts:
* Are they photographing all vehicles going in each direction along that road, and just assuming that they are parked on it?
* Surely every car going to the NCP car park would be using that access road - are they sending PCNs to all of them? (I've only read about one other such case back in 2016 - metioned earlier in this thread - although is not clear from that post whether they DID actually stop/park on the road)
(I wonder if it's because my car arrived and left on the same day? Presumably most NCP car park users would stay for multiple days/weeks? Though I don't think it should matter.)

* As fisherjim has suggested, is it common for them to use an additional ANPR camera to purely whitelist cars that are 'passing through' - if so, and we can demonstrate that it appears to have failed 'once' then surely that means it could fail ANY time, and so is not an eligible method to be EVER used?
* They are trying to charge me for parking but have NO evidence that my car was ever 'parked'!
(Of course 'I' know that my car was NEVER parked anywhere other than the NCP car park. But how can they assume it was, just based on photos of my car 'passing by'?)

Coupon-mad

* Are they photographing all vehicles going in each direction along that road, and just assuming that they are parked on it?

Yes.

* Surely every car going to the NCP car park would be using that access road - are they sending PCN to all of them? (I've only read about one other such case back in 2016, mentioned earlier int his thread)

I expect they also have a camera to 'whitelist' cars seen going to the NCP site.

* As fisherjim has suggested, is it common for them to use an additional ANPR camera to purely whitelist cars that are 'passing through' - if so, and we can demonstrate that it appears to have failed 'once' then surely that means it could fail ANY time, and so is not an eligible method to be EVER used?

Yes this is common where there is access to another site. ANPR always defaults to 'first in last out' images within a 24 hr period and if the whitelist camera missed you once - maybe due to a large van obscuring your VRN, or a glitch, or even a bird flying in the line of camera vision - then they'd have just 3 images not 4, and the ANPR then defaults to image 1 and the last exit image, and yep, churns out a PCN.

Scam, innit?!

don9999

Still awaiting photos from NCP.
I made my request by email to cctvpcn@ncp.co.uk as I was advised to do.
Email sent on 2nd July.
Not even received an acknowledgement yet.
Not sure how long to expect to wait.....