7 fines for 1 incident, lost appeal, help please

Redx

popla is not an option for these train station bylaw tickets issued by SABA

that separate appeals process was the option if you decided to take it

they have 6 months to try a bylaws penalty for these in the MAGS court , read this


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6015242/saba-parking-pcn-notice-served-at-railway-station


the DVLA keep records on the Registered Keeper of a vehicle , not drivers

northantscharlie

Ok thankyou. I need to check what info was given. I read on other threads now that they it’s the owner who is liable now anyway regardless of driver or is that incorrect?

northantscharlie

Thanks that info is really useful.

I need to check but if the person completing the appeal said ‘I paid for the ticket, I parked the car’ etc, so in essence admitting they were the driver, are we completely screwed?? 🙈

northantscharlie

Ok so husband thinks he has probably identified himself as the driver in his initial correspondence to them and in the appeal to AS...do we have any course of action left?

Redx

northantscharlie wrote: »

Ok so husband thinks he has probably identified himself as the driver in his initial correspondence to them and in the appeal to AS...do we have any course of action left?

not to my knowledge , no

it has to end somewhere, so non-payment "MAY" end up in Magistrates Court within 6 months if its a penalty , or Civil Court if its not a penalty (within 6 years)

these companies like to confuse the two and confuse all of us as well (its a scammers paradise racket)

you cannot just expect to keep appealing like they do in the USA , there has to be a decision or it times out , the ball is in their court , not yours

Coupon-mad

No-one is telling you to pay but you should never have tried that second stage appeal as it is considered biased and a kangaroo court.

How close are you to the 6 months?

The idea is to string this out to the 6 month deadline, by emails to ZZPS and QDR, disputing the charge and pointing out it is not a breach of byelaws to make a typo, and nor is this supported by the BPA as it is a simple keying error and the resulting PCNs should have been cancelled.

Even though these 'penalty' cases don't go to POPLA, this 2018 report is useful for you to cite when playing email tennis for the next few months with ZZPS:

https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/popla-annual-report-2018.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Read p6 and p7 about the BPA Trade Body's advice to their members about 'simple keying errors'. Given that Indigo/SABA are in the BPA AOS and have to abide by all BPA rules & operating policies, in order to handle keeper data from the DVLA.

The POPLA Report there, calls penalising for a keying error ''unfairness'' which is contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the law cited here in a defence for someone who won in court (but your case can't go to a small claim so don't start reading up on that):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75501003&postcount=65

So, start replying to them and showing them that, and repeating it. No replying too quickly to each response when they knock you back! The whole point is to wait and reply on the last day each time, asking something else or saying something new/showing them evidence and links, etc.

nosferatu1001

Youre incorrect, OP, as yo uare conflating two terms

Owner is the legal owner of the vehicle, such as a finance company
The (Registered) Keeper is the person keeping the vehicle, for example the lessee

Under POFA2012 only the KEEPER can be made liable; NEVER the owner

Further, what you have missed by reading other threads is that *railway land* is "not relevant land" for the purpose of POFA; ie the Keeper CANNOT be made liable; liability remains with teh driver

Any atempt by PPCs to invoke Byelaws to claim the Owner is liable is pretty much doomed, for reasons explained ad infinitum on these threads.

So, you are where you are

Answer the question:
1) Do they claim this is a fine or penalty under the byelaws?
2) If YES, how close are you to the 6 months time out to take to mag court?

northantscharlie

Yes they reference the Byelaws in the PCN. We are just over 2 months off the 6 month period from the issue of the first PCN.

Thanks for the details on the mis-keying I will look at all that info and go back to them with that.

We assumed the appeals service was truly independent and would see the case was nonsense as a ticket was purchased, or at the least just charge us for the first day not the others, but sadly mistaken. We had no idea sadly this was the wrong course of action

northantscharlie

My husband’s name is on the V5 so assuming registered owner...?

northantscharlie

I see lots of reference to 6 months but where is this stated in law? I read through the Byelaws (great bedtime reading ��) and it’s not in there. Is it more what people have found in practice? Thanks.