Question regarding ethical/religious beliefs and DWP sanctions?

Comms69

KatrinaWaves wrote: »

I do not see allowing someone to not handle alcohol (if indeed a religion required it which remains to be seen) as a business decision. It is a staffing decision. Same as allowing someone to wear religious headwear which may not be in their normal uniform provision. - well ultimately it's a business decision. Use of staff, policy whatever, it's all business decisions.

If someone wants to refuse to shop somewhere where they make a tiny allowance for (possible, I still think its an age thing) religion, then in my opinion that is ignorant. No one is being inconvenienced in any way.Just because someone is free to give their money to whoever they choose doesn't mean the reason cannot be ignorant. - agree to disagree ignorance is to suggest they are unaware or something.

Plus anytime the phrase 'western country' is brought up in such topics it is never a enlightened opinion which follows...

well again agree to disagree. Enlightened suggests that one view is superior to another.


Whilst I don't agree with discrimination, I don't pretend that my view is superior to another.

KatrinaWaves

Comms69 wrote: »

well again agree to disagree. Enlightened suggests that one view is superior to another.


Whilst I don't agree with discrimination, I don't pretend that my view is superior to another.

Ignorant has many meanings other than simply 'unaware'

If someone thinks their right to be served alcohol by every staff member is superior to their desire to no for a religious reason, then yes, I do think my opinion on that is superior to theirs, as my opinion does not require people to do things simply to not inconvenience someone else slightly.

Comms69

KatrinaWaves wrote: »

Ignorant has many meanings other than simply 'unaware'

If someone thinks their right to be served alcohol by every staff member is superior to their desire to no for a religious reason, then yes, I do think my opinion on that is superior to theirs, as my opinion does not require people to do things simply to not inconvenience someone else slightly.

Ok well I'm using the official meaning: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Respectfully, you're opinion is worth no more than anyone else's. Expecting to receive a standard of service from a business is not ignorant.


As I said if a business makes that decision, it's up to the market to decide how to respond. If people choose to shop elsewhere for that, or any other reason, that is up to them. You can hold any opinion you like on that, that's your right. But I would be wary of name calling.


Expecting a person working at a till to serve customers is not onerous. Personally if two shops were next door to eachother and the prices were the same, but in one I had to queue up in a designated area simply to enjoy my choice of beverage - yes I would shop at the other one.


I'm not ignorant. I just don't believe - as I said - religion has any place in business (or education for that matter).

General_Grant

Comms69 wrote: »

. . . I'm not ignorant. I just don't believe - as I said - religion has any place in business (or education for that matter).

If that is your belief then presumably you have no actual religious belief yourself, at least not in a religion which affects your behaviour.

KatrinaWaves

Religion is a large part of many peoples lives. Expecting a tiny concession from a shop (not refusing to sell any alcohol) is a very small thing to do to allow people to have freedom of religion. One person, not a whole shop or staff.

If someone chooses not to shop in a store which allows their staff to express their religious beliefs in a tiny way which doesnt inconvenience anyone anymore than a till system error, that is of course entirely up to them. but I am also free to consider it ignorant

Comms69

General_Grant wrote: »

If that is your belief then presumably you have no actual religious belief yourself, at least not in a religion which affects your behaviour.

You are correct in that I do t follow the teachings of a recon gnoses religion. However as I said already the religions in question have exceptions to these rule, earning a living being one of those.

Although an interesting point in whether my beliefs are of any intrinsically lesser value than those of religious people.

KatrinaWaves wrote: »

Religion is a large part of many peoples lives. Expecting a tiny concession from a shop (not refusing to sell any alcohol) is a very small thing to do to allow people to have freedom of religion. One person, not a whole shop or staff.

If someone chooses not to shop in a store which allows their staff to express their religious beliefs in a tiny way which doesnt inconvenience anyone anymore than a till system error, that is of course entirely up to them. but I am also free to consider it ignorant

So 2 people would be wrong? Or is it just a business decision, as I’ve stated repeatedly.

Feel free to consider me ignorant in that case. Though my primary driving factor, as with most consumer decisions, would be cost and convenience.

sparkermarketing

TELLIT01 wrote: »

I don't know about other supermarkets, but our local Morissons have staff who won't handle or serve alcohol. When they are working there are signs on their tills to that effect. If you can show that it is against genuinely held religious beliefs you might be OK, simply saying that you don't agree with the sale of alcohol or cigarettes may not receive such a positive outcome.

what happens then? do they just refuse to accept your custom if you want to buy alcohol?

nicechap

Energize wrote: »

Thankfully for me only a hypothetical question currently. But if you have a genuinely held ethical or religious belief against trading in drugs, can you refuse job roles for things like supermarket/bar jobs where your employer would require you to sell drugs like alcohol and tobacco?

Well given supermarkets sell paracetamol and tea and are both drugs I'm not sure objecting to just certain drugs is a useful starting point.

However, in a free(ish) country, you are at liberty to decline work. Your employer then can choose to adapt to your wishes or dispense with your services and find someone else who will do the tasks required of the job.

So, if you were a vegetarian working in a supermarket, you might be expected to fill the freezers with both vegetables and meat.

If you had some religious objection to eating one type of meat or shellfish, you would still be expected to fill the relevant shelves of these things.

The simple answer is not to apply for these kind of jobs in the first place if you have some kind of ethical or religious objection. Where that might leave any JSA claim is a different question. I suspect there is some measure of leeway (e.g. expecting a vegan to work in an abaitoir) but not of the kind of hypothetical proposition you are making.

motorguy

sparkermarketing wrote: »

what happens then? do they just refuse to accept your custom if you want to buy alcohol?

You use one of the other tills.

Comms69

motorguy wrote: »

You use one of the other tills.

In a different shop...


Pandering to the demands of people based upon their belief in some figure (whether real or not) has no place in a civilised society.