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Saba Parking PCN notice served at Railway Station

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  • thescot82
    thescot82 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary
    edited 4 July 2019 at 11:09AM
    So now that I’ve appealed via Saba’s internal appeals process, what’s the next step? Appeal via asparking.co.uk around the end of June? Should I contact Saba customer service, but not sure what I’d say?
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 21 June 2019 at 3:32PM
    personally , I would be reading each and every SABA thread from 2019 and looking at what advice was given to those who posted , especially all the recent ones

    I dont believe that appealing to AS appeals will do any good , the usual advice is to play ping pong until the 6 months deadline has passed for the TOC to try MAGS court
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper
    .Just remember not to identify the driver and that includes appealing through ASParking

    You seem to have missed this from post #8.

    Why not simply ask towards the end of the appeal window why can't you appeal to POPLA? Why do you need to appeal to asparking?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,896 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 23 June 2019 at 2:47AM
    thescot82 wrote: »
    So now that I’ve appealed via Saba’s internal appeals process, what’s the next step? Appeal via a sparking.co.uk around the end of June?
    Of course not.
    Should I contact Saba customer service, but not sure what I’d say?
    Read any other SABA threads. At least one poster has recently spelt out all the things they said along the way to delay the matter until the 6 months timed out.

    Search the forum for SABA email tennis and read the threads.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • thescot82
    thescot82 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary
    For anyone interested, check out the POPLA's 2018 annual report (sorry but can't share the link being a newbie)

    Page 12 being of particular note regarding keeper/owner pursuit of breach of byelaws, and timelines relating to a breach of byelaws.

    Apparently, any Penalty Notice's issued in breach of a byelaw of Railway land post November 2018 can be appealed to POPLA. So very much need to question Saba why this is not an option!
  • Woppyman72
    Woppyman72 Posts: 63 Forumite
    Agreed, I spotted that too.

    Bought it up with ZZPS and Steve Clark from BPA. Both said POPLA don’t do Railway Byelaws cases so rang POPLA. They too said they don’t do them despite what the website says. They were adamant (earlier this month - June)

    Total and utter confusion. No wonder the Newbies are confused.....and the PPCs love it that way
  • thescot82
    thescot82 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary
    1) Railway Byelaws state that the person in charge of the vehicle commits an offence....but there is no evidence who was in charge (unless you tell them of course!)

    2) The owner may be held liable.....but you are not the legal owner either are you

    Just looked up the Railway Byelaws again via the gov.co.uk website - clearly states the vehicle owner is liable.

    (4) In England and Wales
    (i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
    used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be
    liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.
    (ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle
    or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw
    14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or
    under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.
    (iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
    shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the
    costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided
    that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle
    parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed
    and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that
    12
    the costs incurred by an Operator or an authorised person for
    this may be recovered from the vehicle’s owner.
    (iv) The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw
    14(4)(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where
    passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in
    that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to
    these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by an
    Operator or an authorised person.
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper
    thescot82 wrote: »
    Just looked up the Railway Byelaws again via the gov.co.uk website - clearly states the vehicle owner is liable.

    (4) In England and Wales
    (i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
    used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be
    liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.
    (ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle
    or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw
    14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or
    under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.
    (iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance
    shall be liable to an Operator or an authorised person for the
    costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided
    that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle
    parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed
    and stored by an Operator or an authorised person and that
    12
    the costs incurred by an Operator or an authorised person for
    this may be recovered from the vehicle’s owner.
    (iv) The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw
    14(4)(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where
    passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in
    that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to
    these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by an
    Operator or an authorised person.

    Don't tell them who the owner is then. They have no way of finding out if you don't tell them.
  • thescot82 wrote: »
    Just looked up the Railway Byelaws again via the gov.co.uk website - clearly states the vehicle owner is liable.
    .
    No it doesn’t. It says the owner may be liable.

    Saba like to say “the owner may be liable; therefore he is”. This is devoid of any logical reasoning.

    Clearly it’s ridiculous to presume the owner is liable in all circumstances- what about if the car was stolen at the time, or on hire? Or if the driver has already been prosecuted? So you can ask them: “ in what circumstances do you claim the owner is liable? Please direct me to the statutory provisions upon which you rely.

    You can also ask them to state where in the Byelaws the train operating company is expressly granted the power to impose its own private penalties. (Answer: nowhere. They don’t have the power)
  • thescot82
    thescot82 Posts: 16 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary
    Update.

    Today is my last day to appeal via POPLA. So I emailed Saba on Thursday requesting the 10 digit POPLA code.

    Saba respond tonight at 10.15pm stating that ITAL / asparking is the equivalent of POPLA, however, as POPLA do not service all of our contracts. If you wish to further appeal this matter, please submit all further correspondences to asparking.com.

    This is an absolute joke. Should I go back to Saba and state that POPLA are responsible for Railway Byelaws??
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