Audi A2 1.4 SE (51 Plate) Cam Belt Snapped - who's liable for cost?

Huggins

It's annoying but i have to agree you (Mrfriendly) will have little if no joy pursuing this with either Audi or previous owners - speaking from experience

Vomityspice

Whilst I wouldn't want to call the person at CAB a retard, the advice you were given was duff!

Your problem (legally) is that you don't/didn't have a contract with Audi. You can't sue them. The legal position is slightly more complex (3rd parties Act) but ths won't apply in your case.

Your initial purchase of the vehicle from a private buyer was 'caveat emptor' and I'm not sure on what basis you think Audi is in any way negligent / responsible?

However, if your feeling lucky, fill in your claim form (moneyonline) and let us all know how you get on?

Happy to predict the result as Audi 1 - Mr Friendly 0

peterbaker

Hi MrFriendly
I've been using Audi for a good 10 years on and off. I have locked horns with them at dealer level two or three times and won, but you have to make a hell of a fuss even when problems are plainly linked to them or Audi.

I bought my current Audi diesel privately (nearly 170,000 miles now and still purring!) and it had actually been away from Audi servicing for a couple of years when I bought it.

I was lucky enough to guage the cam belt situation and get the car through two full services including cambelt change at the dealers before the last big problem arose.

In other words I created some history at the dealers to hang my hat on.

They were extremely reluctant to accept a serious safety defect on behalf of Audi because of the age of the car and the miles (mine was about 6 years old at that time too). But I hammered them in the full glare of their showroom on a busy Saturday morning and published the fault on various Audi internet forums and ultimately they backed down.

Audi are nice reliable and solidly built cars, and save for the simplest of maintenance schedules (at £105 per hour + VAT of course!) they will go forever, but I think the cambelt is a built-in deliberate defect to keep the workshops busy and the dealerships viable.

It's 2007. Rubber belts don't have to perish in 6 years. If the car had been sitting under a tree for 6 years and the engine not turned, then maybe. But let's be serious, gentlemen automotive engineers who have stuck their oar in!

I am not convinced that modern diesels even benefit from "cambelts and tensioners" as a concept. I think the device is an Achilles Heel that need not be there. I think they might be designed to fall apart.

A good test of my theory might be to look at diesel engines in modern light aircraft which are all the rage thesedays and cost only about 1/3rd the typical hourly automotive charge to service at the dealers! Do aviation diesels have flakey cambelts and tensioners? I'd be very surprised if they did, because aero-engines are rather safety critical items

Can anyone confirm?

In short MrFriendly, I totally sympathise, but with no personal history of having serviced this vehicle at your dealer, then I'd say it is difficult to draw a bead on any target this time.

dunstonh

It appears that this car doesnt have a full dealers service history. It is missing at least one dealer service. How many of the other services have not been done by the dealer?

I cannot see how you can have a claim against Audi if they havent been doing all the servicing.

I would not rely on CAB as a reliable source of what your rights are. I have worked for them a few times and you tend to find that they seem to give a pro-consumer response based on limited information but when it comes down to it and the full info is known, there isnt a case to answer.

anewman

peterbaker wrote: »

Audi are nice reliable and solidly built cars, and save for the simplest of maintenance schedules (at £105 per hour + VAT of course!) they will go forever, but I think the cambelt is a built-in deliberate defect to keep the workshops busy and the dealerships viable.

Certainly the more run of the mill Audi's are no more nice or reliably built than Skoda's, VW's, or Seats are. They're all made by the Volkswagen Audi Group and most share the same bits, and same softish paint that chips quite easily.

Cam belts sort of gradually replaced timing chains as they make an engine run a little smoother. Some cars are around with timing chains which do not need constant replacement and generally give no trouble, appart from the Skoda ones without pretensioners that wear and work loose then rattle after 100k miles or so.

They could go back to chains, but would customers then complain that the car isn't as smooth as the competitor's car which has a cam belt? They would then lose out double, on sales and future garage cam belt replacements. It's all about the money.

MyUserNamesTaken

Mr_Friendly wrote: »

This information specifically for the cam belt is not held within the documentation for the vehicle. The only think I have to go on is a standard cam belt longevity and replacement timescale of 60k miles.

The vehicle has done just over half of this amount.

See, that's where you went wrong. You should have checked the service recordf for any mention of a cambelt change, or recommendation of a cambelt change. If there was no mention of it, you should have asked the owner. If he couldn't provide proof of a cambelt change, you should have taken it as a given that it hadn't been done. That is entirely your own fault. You're also purposely ignoring a vital piece of information. Audi recommend changing the cambelt every 60K miles, or 4 years, which ever comes sooner. Get it? So what if the car has only done 32K miles?! It's 6 years old already - 2 years past the manufacturer's recommended time limit for a cambelt change. You failed to check if it had been done, the car has gone 2 years over the time limit advised by the manufacturer, it's your own fault.

By the way, any mechanic will tell you that age also affects the cambelt. They'd tell you that 6 years on the same cambelt was risking it.

MyUserNamesTaken

Mr_Friendly wrote: »

The vehicle has been properly looked after and maintained. I have done (and the previous owner) all that is required to ensure it's kept in great condition. As far as I'm concerned the cam belt should last way longer than it has.

No, it hasn't and no you didn't. Neither you nor the previous owner bothered to get the cambelt changed even though it was due one 2 years ago.

jackieb

anewman wrote: »

I think VAG usually recommend every 4 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes sooner. But with the service history I'd say it is worth a try, as they should have changed the belt had it needed doing, and also inspected it regardless.

I'm pretty sure it's 80,000 miles or 5 years. I have a 52 plate A4 2.0 SE and we got ours changed in February year before the 5 years was up - just to be on the safe side.

Mr_Friendly

peterbaker wrote: »

Hi MrFriendly
I've been using Audi for a good 10 years on and off. I have locked horns with them at dealer level two or three times and won, but you have to make a hell of a fuss even when problems are plainly linked to them or Audi.

I bought my current Audi diesel privately (nearly 170,000 miles now and still purring!) and it had actually been away from Audi servicing for a couple of years when I bought it.

I was lucky enough to guage the cam belt situation and get the car through two full services including cambelt change at the dealers before the last big problem arose.

In other words I created some history at the dealers to hang my hat on.

They were extremely reluctant to accept a serious safety defect on behalf of Audi because of the age of the car and the miles (mine was about 6 years old at that time too). But I hammered them in the full glare of their showroom on a busy Saturday morning and published the fault on various Audi internet forums and ultimately they backed down.

Audi are nice reliable and solidly built cars, and save for the simplest of maintenance schedules (at £105 per hour + VAT of course!) they will go forever, but I think the cambelt is a built-in deliberate defect to keep the workshops busy and the dealerships viable.

It's 2007. Rubber belts don't have to perish in 6 years. If the car had been sitting under a tree for 6 years and the engine not turned, then maybe. But let's be serious, gentlemen automotive engineers who have stuck their oar in!

I am not convinced that modern diesels even benefit from "cambelts and tensioners" as a concept. I think the device is an Achilles Heel that need not be there. I think they might be designed to fall apart.

A good test of my theory might be to look at diesel engines in modern light aircraft which are all the rage thesedays and cost only about 1/3rd the typical hourly automotive charge to service at the dealers! Do aviation diesels have flakey cambelts and tensioners? I'd be very surprised if they did, because aero-engines are rather safety critical items

Can anyone confirm?

In short MrFriendly, I totally sympathise, but with no personal history of having serviced this vehicle at your dealer, then I'd say it is difficult to draw a bead on any target this time.

Peter thank you very much for your well thought out point of view and for taking the time to actually put across your opinion without resorting 9as other have) to downright abuse.

To be honest I fully wish that on day one I went to an Audi dealer for a service, however as the car had been serviced only 3 months previously to when I took ownership I decided (albeit now in error) to wait until the next service was due in February 08. Whether or not others agree I have a valid claim I still feel it necessary to press on because (as you rightly say) it is 2007 and cam belts shouldn't be falling apart after 5 years 10 months when it the car has been looked after in this manner.

I too agree that either Audi have knowingly used parts they knew would fail shorter than the average life span or negligently done so, they have still used these parts. This is my opinion. What I don't understand is why people feel the need to resort to abuse, !!!! taking or saying they will laugh if I fail in my challenge rather than just saying it's not what they'd do and they feel I would be wasting my money, but good luck anyway.

I feel this is the mature and grown up attitude to take.

Peter I like what you say about making a scene on a busy Saturday morning in their showroom. I may in fact resort to this method too as well as all other methods at my disposal in order to achieve my desired result. I have written a polite letter to Audi stating my case and until I get a reply (or 14 days have passed, which ever comes sooner) I will refrain from taking the issue further than necessary.

Thank you again for your point of view.

dunstonh

Mr Friendly, please can you let us know how many of the services were dealer services? You seem to be ignoring that and it is a crucial point.

I repeat that we know the dealer didnt do one of the services but what about the rest?