not parked - picking up disabled relative

Coupon-mad

I was laughing when I read what you put. So happy for you that you have an ''out'' and if they proceed, you can counter sue for compensation for this distress and data misuse.

It is IMPERATIVE you do as I explained. An email to Excel's contact email given in their PRIVACY page.

Don't try looking for the page on their website - just GOOGLE EXCEL PARKING PRIVACY.

And also reply separately to the LBC (yes also to Excel if they sent it themselves) but this time to their Litigation Manager, telling them to check with their Data Protection Officer as you've emailed them a serious data concern, as this was a double visit (give details and approx times of leaving) and tell Excel that they must cancel the charge or face an ICO complaint, and MUST NOT proceed with a court claim, given the facts about the ANPR error.

gobble56

SAR did not bring up photos of the in between exit and entry. Letter stating they must desist was sent and ignored. Letter received from court.
There has to be a problem with the anpr.
There are problems with the signage (visited recently and current photos taken), i suspect the ltk did not arrive in time (was dated 13th day but with Bank holidays, weekends, and no doubt second class postage it would not have reached my address.
How do i defend? Do i now need a solicitor?

Ralph-y

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou


find post #2


this is the walk though that you need to read.


"Do i now need a solicitor"


have you £££ to burn? there will be relatively few solicitors nationwide who have any real understanding as to private parking,



especially compared to the wealth of knowledge and experience here ...


Ralph:cool:

KeithP

gobble56 wrote: »

Letter received from court.

Based on that really cryptic statement, I cannot see how you can expect good guidance - or indeed, any guidance.

Care to expand on that?

For a start, what exactly have you received from where?

gobble56

Here is my draft defence - comments please - have approx a week to return

IN THE COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE
CLAIM NO:……….
BETWEEN
………….
(claimant)
-and-
...
(defendant)

DEFENCE

1. I am......., the Defendant in this matter, registered keeper of vehicle .......

2. The claim is denied in its entirety.

3. The facts are that the vehicle did not park in the car park at ........ It entered, the driver found that there were no spaces, drove out and parked elsewhere. Later the same day the vehicle entered the car park for a second time briefly to collect two disabled passengers from the 'shop name' area of this car park (not covered by the claimant – 90mins free parking there, but a shared entrance) because they had been shopping in the shop.

4. There was no breach of contract or breach of the terms and conditions – the car was not parked without purchasing a valid pay and display ticket because the car was not parked.

5. The second photo from the ANPR system shows the car from a side angle, in an extreme corner of the image. This is because the car briefly crossed the section that is managed by the Claimant. The car had actually been in the area controlled by 'shop'. An employee told me of an occasion when Excel Parking Ltd had tried to claim money from her for parking in the same area, but the company backed her up and the claim was cancelled.

6. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras 7.3 to 7.5.

7. Further, and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant’s signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner to suggest the driver did anything wrong. The only signs that can be read from within a car state that “10 minutes is allowed to purchase a valid Pay & Display ticket after a vehicle has entered the car park” and “any Vehicle/Driver remaining in this car park 10 minutes after entry is subject to and agrees in full to the Terms & Conditions”. The vehicle was not in the car park for more than 10 minutes on either of the two separate occasions it used that entrance that day.

8. In the BPA Code of Practice that was in place at the time (the Claimant is a member of the BPA and should therefore abide by its rules and regulations) it states in para21.1 “You may use ANPR camera technology to manage control and enforce parking in private car parks as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.” The signs in place breach this requirement, because they do not state what the data will be used for.

9. Other signage in the car park is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is therefore denied that the Claimant’s signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

10. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

11. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). By not serving a notice containing statutory text within the required time period, the Claimant is unable to hold the Defendant liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions. (paragraph 9, sub-paragraph (4)(b) states the notice must be given by “sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to the address within the relevant period.” The relevant period, according to sub-paragraph (5) is “the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.” According to sub-paragraph (6) “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.” We have no proof of the day it was posted, but using this guidance and applying it to the date the letter was written shows that the parking charge notice arrived at least 3 days too late. As additional information the Letter Before Claim stated that it was written on ..., but did not reach my postal address until...... (a full week later).

12. The Parking Charge Notice did not show any photographic evidence of the Defendant’s vehicle actually parked. The car was not parked.

13. It appears that the ANPR system failed to record the exit after the first entrance (to and from the section that the claimant manages) and the entrance, to the separate section not managed by the claimant, of 'the car' that day. Such failures are known to occur, as outlined in [parking prankster web page]. The inability of an ANPR system to accurately record all car entrances and exits is a breach of the BPA Code of Practice as quoted in paragraph 7, above.

14. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper (assuming that the Parking Charge Notice is intended to be a NTK – it is not duly labelled as such), in this case that sum is £100. The claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

15. In summary, it is the Defendant’s position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly the court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4

I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

Fruitcake

Point 5, can you get the court claim number and any other details from the employee you mention? Being able to quote a dismissed case at the same location will be very helpful.

Point 14, read the Abuse of Process thread by beamerguy and write to the court requesting your case be thrown out, citing the other three cases where judges have done this when the scammers added on additional fake charges. Do this independently to your defence, but also cite the other cases in your defence.

Do you have any proof that the car was elsewhere in between the two visits? Dashcam, google location on a smart 'phone, receipts from other shops, witness statements from people who saw the driver/car elsewhere (but without identifying the driver) etcetera.

Complain to the ICO, especially if you have proof the car was elsewhere, that the scammers have failed to provide ALL your personal data that they hold which includes your VRN where the car left and returned to the car park. These images MUST exist/have existed since it is a material fact that the car left and returned.

Check with the local planning office to see if the ANPR scameras have planning permission, especially if they cover an area they don't manage.
Also check to see if they have Advertising Consent for the signs. Not having the latter is a criminal offence.

The_Deep

It is perfectly acceptable for the driver and absolute scammery by the PPC.

I agree, but we are where we are. Until judges punish PPCs for abusing the system we are stuck with the status quo. People categorically should not enter private land without permission as the law as it stands is firmly, (and rightly imo), on the side of the landowner.

We need action to curb/regulate the activities of the solicitors who are fuelling this wholesale abuse of the court system. Hopefully judges in Southampton and the IofW have inserted the tin end of the wedge.

KeithP

You ignored my previous post. Please don't ignore this one.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton or from somewhere else?

gobble56

Date of Issue was 11th July, from Northampton.
so the defence needs to be in on 13th August, correct?
At that point I just need to email in the defence as per bargepole's advice?
Witness statements (mine, passenger, those who were met and told about it contemporaneously), and other documents get sent two weeks before any court date, is that right?
No complaint has been sent to the shop in question (because I hadn't twigged about the separate area until I went down to take photos), or the DVLA, or ICO. Should I be rushing to do those?
Do I do a counterclaim now, or wait until I have a judgment in my favour?
Employee didn't get to court - was dealt with at appeal stage I believe.
Thanks for all help offered.

Umkomaas

Do I do a counterclaim now, or wait until I have a judgment in my favour?

What are you wishing to counterclaim for?