Parking Control Management - charge for 3 mins while loading

Mr._Mime

I received a PCN (no ticket on widscreen) from PCM for 'parking' at the foot of a housing association block, however we were actually loading (heavy boxes), rather than parking, and the car was left for approx 3-4 mins in total while we went upstaris to get the boxes.

I posted over at PPP about it, and although got a bit of advice on how to respond, eg to cite a similar case that was won about loading (Jopson v Homeguard) and saying that the NTK is not POFA compliant, however I'm struggling to understand the ins and outs of the POFA side of things.

Can I post my NTK here for someone knowledgable to please shed some light on it?

Coupon-mad

No point worrying about the POFA (and PCM do normally comply). This will be won by admitting to being the driver in the eventual court defence and using Jopson v Homeguard and other exhibits with your Witness Statement.

There may also be an argument about prohibitive signs not offering a parking licence there, as was the case in PCM v Bull (again, like Jopson, read the transcript hosted in the Parking Prankster's two case law pages).

The residents should have got PCM removed before they started like we achieved here this week:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced

Long term, that's what you & the other residents need to achieve. Get PCM kicked out.

If not, you will have to move out (not joking) as this is untenable, a private nuisance, a blight on your homes, lowers the value etc.

I would not even look at a flat that had PCM infesting it.

Short term, there is no quick fix but keep all letters until the doomed court claim comes from Gladstones, and do send an appeal that provides evidence (witness statement?) that the car was only briefly stopped for unloading and cite Jopson at them and tell them to get lost.

Appeals don't work but it looks better later in front of the Judge if you gave the scammer ex clampers blighting the residents' lives, a chance to cancel it in the knowledge that the Jopson (persuasive appeal - higher level than County Court first instance) case applies.

Keep all letters and get photos of those signage terms now, and keep it all in a file.

Mr._Mime

Thanks Coupon-mad.

No chance of kicking PCM out, it's a housing association block, and they have a massive contract at many multiple sites. It'd be like trying to get a supermarket to end their contract. I will however still be complaining to the housing association and pointing out PCMs bad behaviour.

To be clear, are you saying my next move should be an appeal through their online form, or just a letter to them with the above points?

Also, if I can get evidence that the car was stopped for just a few minutes, is there an opportunity to sue for breach of data protection? (Getting my details from DVLA whilst breaking their contract with DVLA by not giving grace periods).

Coupon-mad

An appeal online, just to set the scene knowing it will be refused.

NO TRYING IAS!

Never post stuff to a PPC, they will pretend it never arrived and if you send it signed-for that's an absolute no-no as it gives a scammer the chance NOT to sign, thus giving you tracked proof of NON delivery!

Also, if I can get evidence that the car was stopped for just a few minutes, is there an opportunity to sue for breach of data protection? (Getting my details from DVLA whilst breaking their contract with DVLA by not giving grace periods).

Probably not something a Judge would entertain IMHO, unless you fancy throwing £25 at a counter claim when they sue you, seeing as you will have to write a defence you could also write a counter claim if that's your sort of thing.

The KADOE DVLA rules don't actually require a grace period, and nor dos the IPC CoP if the suggestion is that place is meant to be 'restricted/no parking'.

If it were me I wouldn't do a counterclaim but this actual future defence case is winnable for you, of course, for all the reasons already discussed above.

Mr._Mime

Hi - today is the 28th day, so I need to send this appeal in. Is something like this ok?

[removed]

KeithP

For a start, you haven't received a Penalty Charge Notice, have you?

Did you perhaps receive a Parking Charge Notice?

Why not use the already written for you blue text template appeal you will have found in post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

Mr._Mime

Thanks for spotting that Keith P. Long day. :-/


Regarding that template - am I ok to omit the para about the PDT machine? It's not that sort of parking area and there are none/doesn't apply.


I take it I should weave in my paragraph about loading/Jobson v Homeguard?


Thanks!

KeithP

The standard advice here is you just send the template unchanged - no additions or alterations necessary.

Send it as the keeper.

You seem to think that someone is going to read it.
Appeals are routinely rejected but with any luck they may recognise the forum template ant put it in the 'too difficult' pile.

Coupon-mad

But (despite our advice) if you want to replace the VRN/machine bit, then do.

Send ANYTHING that doesn't say who was driving, and it can't hurt.

Mr._Mime

Hmmm, that template letter is for an overstay.

My notice from PCM says the charge is for 'Parked outside of a marked bay / on a restricted roadway / landscaped / paved areas or causing an obstruction or inconvenience to others.'

I'm not sure the template letter really addresses this?

I know you say it doesn't matter coz they'll reject it anyway, but it will matter if/when it goes to court and the judge gets to see it all?

KeithP

Then do what you think best.