100+ miles a day, diesel or petrol in 2019?

shinytop

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

I thought that must be the case. But if that's true, I can't see how an EV really is a viable proposition for anything more than about 50 miles or so, during the winter. Even those that claim to have a range of 180 miles or whatever, I bet that's halved if the heater is on full belt constantly ?

I'm sure the EV owners will answer but my plug in's actual electric range is about 50% of claimed under these conditions. It also plummets if you don't drive like an old lady.

AdrianC

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

I thought that must be the case. But if that's true, I can't see how an EV really is a viable proposition for anything more than about 50 miles or so, during the winter. Even those that claim to have a range of 180 miles or whatever, I bet that's halved if the heater is on full belt constantly ?

Let's say it's just a purely electric heater, with a constant output of 1kW. You can easily relate that to an electric fan heater in the house...

So that's on for an hour, it uses 1kWh of electricity. Your average electric car does about 3 miles on 1 kWh. So having the heater on for an hour reduces range by 3 miles.

And that's before we consider other heat sources - reusing battery heat, or heat generated by the regenerative braking, that sort of thing.

AdrianC

shinytop wrote: »

I'm sure the EV owners will answer but my plug in's actual electric range is about 50% of claimed under these conditions. It also plummets if you don't drive like an old lady.

Range is calculated using the same driving cycles as fuel economy in internal combustion vehicles.

Hybrids are a bit more complicated. The newer WLTP cycle is much less flattering to them than the old NEDC, because it takes much more account of charge level.

iolanthe07

Air conditioning must take a fair bit out of a battery on a hot summer's day.

DrEskimo

Heating/air con really doesn't impact range enough to be a concern.

My 41kWh battery will easily do 130miles in the winter (<5°C), and 180 in the summer (>15°C). Currently getting 170miles on a full charge. I have climate control on 21 and just don't touch it. Best thing to do in the winter is preheat while it is still plugged in. That way you've done the lions share of the heating without touching the battery.

I find the range (referred to as the Guess-O-Meter) quite accurate. In fact it tends to underestimate. I can do a 10miles trip and only lose 5miles on the range. As ever, depends how you drive!

Speed is the real killer. Anything over 70, or even 65, starts to affect my predicted range. So long motorway journeys can reduce that range from 130/180, to about 100/150 being really conservative.

shinytop

DrEskimo wrote: »

Heating/air con really doesn't impact range enough to be a concern.

My 41kWh battery will easily do 130miles in the winter (<5°C), and 180 in the summer (>15°C). Currently getting 170miles on a full charge. I have climate control on 21 and just don't touch it. Best thing to do in the winter is preheat while it is still plugged in. That way you've done the lions share of the heating without touching the battery.

I find the range (referred to as the Guess-O-Meter) quite accurate. In fact it tends to underestimate. I can do a 10miles trip and only lose 5miles on the range. As ever, depends how you drive!

Speed is the real killer. Anything over 70, or even 65, starts to affect my predicted range. So long motorway journeys can reduce that range from 130/180, to about 100/150 being really conservative.

That's the clincher for me - going less than 65 on a motorway unless you're in a lorry is dangerous. I'm a fan of EVs but I do too many long journeys. And I keep saying to people, it's not the range that's the problem, it's the several hours to charge. I did my 120 mile round trip on motorcycles with a 120 mile range for several years and that was fine

shinytop

AdrianC wrote: »

Range is calculated using the same driving cycles as fuel economy in internal combustion vehicles.

Hybrids are a bit more complicated. The newer WLTP cycle is much less flattering to them than the old NEDC, because it takes much more account of charge level.

And we all know how unrealistic these are. I don't bother running it as an EV any more; I just plug it in, leave it in hybrid mode and let the car work it out.

AdrianC

shinytop wrote: »

That's the clincher for me - going less than 65 on a motorway unless you're in a lorry is dangerous.

No, it isn't. Not unless your observation and awareness is utterly appalling. I've done tens of thousands of motorway miles in cars that don't cruise any faster than 65, often even lower - and it really isn't "dangerous".

Doing 65, you're still 9mph faster than trucks can physically go, and 5mph faster than coaches or anybody towing should be going.

DrEskimo

Yea the '65mph on motorways is dangerous' is complete nonsense. Vast majority of the traffic are around that speed anyway...

120miles trip..assuming you had no solid way to charge at the destination I would say 40kWh is just below the threshold. Could do it though. I drove it 65miles back when I bought it from the dealer around the M25 and still had 75 on the range estimate, so....

In all honesty I wouldn't want to do 120miles trips every day in a Zoe anyway. It's not designed for that....

64kWh would be no problem at all. Something like a Kona with 300miles+ and range wouldn't even cross your mind....

Scrapit

DrEskimo wrote: »

Yea the '65mph on motorways is dangerous' is complete nonsense. Vast majority of the traffic are around that speed anyway

Not sure what roads you are driving