100+ miles a day, diesel or petrol in 2019?

-Enna

I am currently looking at getting a new car. For the past 3 years I’ve been commuting to work in a petrol car, which is a minimum of 100 miles per day (there and back), which averaged out to 42-45mpg. I still plan on doing this journey for at least another 3-6 months at a minimum.

With the new changes coming in the next couple of years, is it still worth it and cost efficient to get a diesel car?

Thanks in advance.

no1catman

/With that sort of mileage - I would go diesel - you could do 50 - 70 mpg easy.
Yes, be wary of emissions but some new diesel would be better than new petrol's. It's the earlier model diesels you need to be wary about.
.
Rather than new, new try a year old - they may be some good deals about. Good luck.
I don't envy 100 miles a day - motorways or what … ?

Ebe_Scrooge

It depends. That sort of mileage is what diesels are supposed to be for, so the knee-jerk reaction is "yes, go for it".

However, there's a lot of variables. For starters, if you're already getting 45-ish mpg, that ain't half bad in the real world. What sort of a car would you anticipate buying - brand new, nearly new, quite a few years old ? Generally you'd have to be making a huge saving in fuel costs to offset the purchase price of a newer car.

Then you need to think of other ongoing costs - routine servicing, tyres, the cost of parts if repairs are needed, etc. If your existing car is generally reliable and cheap to maintain, you need to be wary of swapping to something that chews through tyres that cost £150 apiece, for instance.

Lastly, is it really worth it for just a few more months of doing that commute ? Will you be hit by congestion charges and clean air zones and stuff ?

So the short answer is - there is no short answer :-) But hopefully it'll give you some food for thought.

System

I've been looking at a new(er) car too. I get 55-60MPG on average out of my 9 year old 143,000 mile Mondeo 2 litre TDCi 140 as almost all mileage is A road/DC/motorway. Looking at the Ford Focus 1.0 125BHP Ecoboost petrol it looks like it would return the same fuel economy, possibly slightly better. Yeah its a slight downgrade in size but not by much and it still retains the same 0-60 time due to a similar power to weight ratio which is important for me as at certain times of the year I do a lot of overtaking of dawdling tourists on their way back home at 40MPH in 60 limit from a day at the seaside.

So that sorted my next thing I was looking at was the environment which muddies the waters. CO2 is responsible for global warming, NOx poisons us, particulates choke us in towns so I did some research. Diesel cars emit less CO2 than petrols on a like for like basis (remember above it was similar MPG for the petrol but only due to an engine half the size and lower BHP/torque) as they're a more lean burn engine. Diesels USED to emit much more NOx and particulates than petrols however with Euro 5 emission specs NOx became very close to petrol and particulate emissions were brought to zero - when did you see a 9/10 year old or newer diesel with black soot on the bumper around the exhaust like they used to? Euro 6 brings NOx levels from diesels almost down to parity with petrol and again, no particulate emissions. The diesels still benefit from lower CO2 output. For me diesel wins but only as long as it is Euro 6 or Euro 5 at a push.

Maintenance wise its in favour of the diesels. Petrol cambelt change intervals are sooner, they have spark plugs, leads and coil packs that need to be done. Both have EGRs that can clog up so that's a tie there.

But then there's the journey types. If you're not regularly doing long journeys 30+ miles or more at a decent lick then you're going to have issues with the DPF filter in a diesel.

I think it essentially breaks down into the following as a result:

If you live in a city or major town and the majority of journeys are urban with the odd trip out then its petrol.
If you live in the countryside or rural area or you do a lot of business travel so are regularly doing longer journeys then its diesel.

Herzlos

If you're going to do it long term, have the budget upfront, and have somewhere to charge overnight, then you might save a fortune with an electric car. Get one with a 150+ mile range and you can do the return trip for almost nothing. If you're going into London it'll save you a fortune on congestion charges too.

System

Herzlos wrote: »

If you're going to do it long term, have the budget upfront, and have somewhere to charge overnight, then you might save a fortune with an electric car. Get one with a 150+ mile range and you can do the return trip for almost nothing. If you're going into London it'll save you a fortune on congestion charges too.

Sadly the price premium for EVs of at least £10k for a comparable car wipes out any savings even if the electricity is free and you pay nothing for entering central London. Especially so if its like the Renault Zoe and you're paying a monthly battery rental charge to the manufacturer as well. At the current moment due to a combination of the make up of power generation in the UK combined with CO2 penalties to do with manufacturing the battery there's not much of an environmental benefit either.

Sadly it looks like the cost of EVs may actually rise as they become more popular with current battery technologies. Unfortunately there is only a certain amount of cobalt available on the planet which is needed to make batteries and it has already been forecast that we're going to fall way short of being able to meet demand as EVs become the mainstream resulting in the cost of batteries rising as cobalt becomes a more sought after commodity. Hopefully something will happen in the next decade to remove the need for cobalt but at the moment it isn't looking good.

foxy-stoat

Get a good second hand diesel, I would go for one that's had a fair amount of depreciation hit already so 3 or 4 year old car.

AdrianC

-Enna wrote: »

With the new changes coming in the next couple of years...

Which "new changes" are you thinking of?

London ULEZ? Something else?

DrEskimo

Tarambor wrote: »

Sadly the price premium for EVs of at least £10k for a comparable car wipes out any savings even if the electricity is free and you pay nothing for entering central London.

My Zoe was only, at most, a couple of grand more than a comparable Clio.

Tarambor wrote: »

Especially so if its like the Renault Zoe and you're paying a monthly battery rental charge to the manufacturer as well.

I don't have a battery rental charge on my Zoe.

Tarambor wrote: »

At the current moment due to a combination of the make up of power generation in the UK combined with CO2 penalties to do with manufacturing the battery there's not much of an environmental benefit either.

But it is only going one way....electricity production and manufacturing techniques are only going to get cleaner, so this will improve over time. Also not to mention other environmental benefits, such as local air pollution and noise pollution.

Tarambor wrote: »

Sadly it looks like the cost of EVs may actually rise as they become more popular with current battery technologies.

We are already seeing increases in the price of used EVs. Appreciation dramatically skews the total cost of ownership towards EV's, even before you account for the fuel savings...

Mercdriver

Appreciation will not last, neither will cobalt.

forgotmyname

DrEskimo wrote: »

My Zoe was only, at most, a couple of grand more than a comparable Clio.

Clio RRP £12k Zoe £20k ??


But it is only going one way....electricity production and manufacturing techniques are only going to get cleaner, so this will improve over time. Also not to mention other environmental benefits, such as local air pollution and noise pollution.

Who will pay for this cleaner energy? Prices will increase.


We are already seeing increases in the price of used EVs. Appreciation dramatically skews the total cost of ownership towards EV's, even before you account for the fuel savings...

People forget that the average new £60k car will depreciate more than a new £20k car.

How many threads where someone spent £20k+ on a car to save £100 a year tax? Car depreciated more than they would have spent on tax for many years before they have even got home from the dealership.

Also check the number of electric vehicles for sale with very low mileages. How many owners bought for the novelty but found them unsuitable for their needs?

Getting better but still not enough for most people. Can i drive 400 motorway miles at night with the lights/heater and stereo on etc?

Just checked some prices and a 2 year old Zoe with a £20k ish new price is now just £10k with a 100 mile range. Larger battery versions are similar money but with the battery lease on top.

So its lost approx £10k where a Clio would be approx £7k and lost under £5k from its new purchase price.

Appreciation? The only thing that shows is huge depreciation.

Enough fuel to take the Clio 40,000 miles over the 2 years after deducting the depreciation on the Clio. So which was better value?