Would I Need To Re-Sit Test ?

SHAFT

Joe_Horner wrote: »

What about it?

You don't commit it by having an expired photocard - as the first link I gave (to the head of motoring at a solicitors) specifically covers.

But, please, whatever you do, don't let a qualified expert in motoring law who's actually confirmed the situation with DVLA change your mind!

Here's the link again, in case you missed it:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/legislation-expired-photos-do-not-invalidate-driving-licences/46025/

I guess you missed.


Failing to update your photo is a non-endorseable offence although it could carry a fine.

You are aware that driving otherwise in accordance is both an endorsable and non endorsable offence?

SHAFT

Funny how solicitors don't agree.

https://www.ibblaw.co.uk/insights/blog/when-does-your-driving-licence-expire-driving-without-valid-licence

Car_54

Joe_Horner wrote: »

But, please, whatever you do, don't let a qualified expert in motoring law who's actually confirmed the situation with DVLA change your mind!

Here's the link again, in case you missed it:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/legislation-expired-photos-do-not-invalidate-driving-licences/46025/

The qualified expert is not infallible. He says "Companies could also face allegations of aiding and abetting if the offence is committed by employees driving on company business, whether in their own vehicle or a company one"
Unless the law has changed, aiding and abetting applies only to indictable offences, which this is not.

Car_54

SHAFT wrote: »

You are aware that driving otherwise in accordance is both an endorsable and non endorsable offence?

How does that work? How can it be both?

AIUI it's endorsable, with 3-6 points.

Joe_Horner

SHAFT wrote: »

Funny how solicitors don't agree.

https://www.ibblaw.co.uk/insights/blog/when-does-your-driving-licence-expire-driving-without-valid-licence

There's a problem with that link though which, if you'd read the"case study" half way down the page, a sharp leagal mind like yours would undoubtedly have spotted:

We recently acted for G, who was charged with an offence of driving without a valid licence and driving without insurance. G had been stopped in his car by police, and had been advised that his licence had expired, and as a consequence that his insurance was invalid. G was arrested and his car was impounded. G renewed his licence with DVLA, and once granted was able to collect his car from the impound. G had to pay over £300 in impound charges. Following representations made to the police by ourselves, the case against G was dropped without the need for attendance at court.

Now, the Police (erroneously) took the same line as you that "photocard out of date = no licence" and that would (if true) mean no insurance.

But driving without insurance is a strict liability offence so, if that interpretation was correct, then no amount of "representations by us" would have prevented the charge going ahead because if that interpretation was correct then the offence was committed.

What they've done on that page is present an impression of the (common but incorrect) misconception that an expired photocard invalidates the licence, then mentioned how their amazing legal abilities got someone off anyway.

No doubt your razor like legal mind will also have spotted that they've been very careful to word that impression without actually stating it as fact:

If you do not renew and are charged with the offence of driving without a valid licence, the penalties can be severe. Not only can you be fined and receive a criminal record, but the offence is usually charged alongside the offence of driving with no insurance, as an expired driving licence invalidates any insurance cover.

The first bit in bold is the hook "If you don't renew and are charged with...." - they fail to point out that any such charge would be wrong, leaving the (not actually stated if anyone queries it) impression that one would lead from the other, which it wouldn't.

The second bit in bold is true as far as it goes. If your licence has actually expired (perhaps an HGV entitlement at age 45 without a medical, or a normal licence at age 70) then insurance would be invalid. But an expired photocard will not invalidate insurance because your actual licence (the computer record held by DVLA which has now replaced the old paper counterpart as proof of your licence) is still valid.



As for their "amazing legal abilities" in the case study, that was undoubtedly just pointing out to the Police that the licence was not, in fact, invalid and - because of that - the insurance offence never happened.

Mercdriver

SHAFT wrote: »

Had you said his entitlement to drive was still valid you'd have been correct. At this moment in time it's unknown whether the licence is still valid.

Hello Andy. Stop nitpicking.

SHAFT

Car_54 wrote: »

How does that work? How can it be both?

AIUI it's endorsable, with 3-6 points.

In circumstances such as where the offender has held a full driving licence which has lapsed, then, provided his / her driving would have been in accordance with that licence this non endorseable offence.

It can be dealt with by a £50 non enforceable ticket.

Car_54

SHAFT wrote: »

In circumstances such as where the offender has held a full driving licence which has lapsed, then, provided his / her driving would have been in accordance with that licence this non endorseable offence.

It can be dealt with by a £50 non enforceable ticket.

Can you quote a source for that?

Norman_Castle

Check online to see the current status of your licence https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence


With only a years driving experience then a long break a refresher lesson and assessment would be wise.

Joe_Horner

SHAFT wrote: »

In circumstances such as where the offender has held a full driving licence which has lapsed, then, provided his / her driving would have been in accordance with that licence this non endorseable offence.

It can be dealt with by a £50 non enforceable ticket.

That's not for expired photocards though.

That's for situations such as getting a totting up ban then starting to drive again without applying to have your licence reinstated when it finishes.

At that point you don't have a licence because it's suspended until you ask for it back but you would have got one if you asked.