Blocking house sale where suspect coercion and control of elderly parents

petere123

hello folks,
I'm trying to help a friend (F), whose narcissist sibling (NB), seems to have groomed parents years. Parents (89 95 yrs) have advertised family home for sale.
We suspect NB's influence, to asset grab from their accounts once sold. Family home empty many years, whilst they rent flat from him !. They pay a very high rent, so maybe out of cash. NB inherited that flat from an old man he 'looked after'. We just discovered this last few days, so now doubly worried about NB's intentions. That inheritance was massively undervalued, presumably to limit inheritance taxes. Hmrc notified, but as yet no follow-up. NB is a pillar of the local community, pulling the "isn't he lovely" wool over local church, coffee morning folk etc.

This seems like coercion & control of elderly parents, in sound mind (legally)but deluded about NB as a selfless, dutiful child.

F might not inherit anything from parents, if NB is to be believed. Naturally, this is a concern, and if true, maybe another example of NB influence. F lives a long way away, and NB lives next door to parents. See's them every day, all day if he chooses.

I'd really appreciate your insight if you have any, on how a house sale in these circumstances can be temporarily blocked, until authorities take an interest (Pensioner welfare charity concerned, and GP, but latter can do nothing without eg physical bruising). Recent laws re coercion, control and psychological manipulation seem to relate to couples, not sibling/parents, and in any case requires the Parents to see the light (whcih they do not).
Once house sold, the proceeds might legally be lost to 'rent payments' to NB, rather than care & support of parents.

As anyone with elderly parents might appreciate, F is desperate to block any coervice control etc, and have them free, autonomous, with perhaps a legal guardian/independent representative and not beholden to NB.

Thanks for any pointers. Really much appreciated. Never been so desperate to help someone. Injustice and manipulation boils my blood

elsien

There is no such thing as a legal guardian: if they have capacity to make decisions, albeit possibly unwise ones, then it is their decision to make. Favouring one child over another does not neccessarily equate to being not capable of making their own decisions. If they see NB all the time and F is far more distant, then it's not surprising that NB is more involved.

Has F considered they may be selling the house because it doesn't meet their needs, they don't want to be landlords, and leaving it empty and deteriorating is helping no one.
Ditto a "fair share" of any will - unless F is a dependent there really isn't any such thing and the parents can leave their money to whoever they wish.

F needs far more evidence than you've posted on here for coercive control. I'd be very surprised if the GP had discussed them with him without their consent because that's a breach of their confidentiality. And it's incorrect to say there has to be bruising to raise concerns.

On a practical level, F can check with the office of the public guardian if any power of attorney has been registered, and raise a concern with them if actions are being taken not in his parents best interests.
And he can contact the local authority with regards to safeguarding but he'd need some evidence of money being mismanaged, not a vague "well NB might spend the house sale money in a couple of years time" for them to do anything.

Who is the "we" and why are you so involved in all of this?
There are two sides to every story, and you are currently only getting one of them.

keithdc

petere123 wrote: »

hello folks,
I'm trying to help a friend (F), whose narcissist sibling (NB), seems to have groomed parents years. Parents (89 95 yrs) have advertised family home for sale.
We suspect NB's influence, to asset grab from their accounts once sold. Family home empty many years, whilst they rent flat from him !. They pay a very high rent, so maybe out of cash. NB inherited that flat from an old man he 'looked after'. We just discovered this last few days, so now doubly worried about NB's intentions. That inheritance was massively undervalued, presumably to limit inheritance taxes. Hmrc notified, but as yet no follow-up. NB is a pillar of the local community, pulling the "isn't he lovely" wool over local church, coffee morning folk etc.

This seems like coercion & control of elderly parents, in sound mind (legally)but deluded about NB as a selfless, dutiful child.

F might not inherit anything from parents, if NB is to be believed. Naturally, this is a concern, and if true, maybe another example of NB influence. F lives a long way away, and NB lives next door to parents. See's them every day, all day if he chooses.

I'd really appreciate your insight if you have any, on how a house sale in these circumstances can be temporarily blocked, until authorities take an interest (Pensioner welfare charity concerned, and GP, but latter can do nothing without eg physical bruising). Recent laws re coercion, control and psychological manipulation seem to relate to couples, not sibling/parents, and in any case requires the Parents to see the light (whcih they do not).
Once house sold, the proceeds might legally be lost to 'rent payments' to NB, rather than care & support of parents.

As anyone with elderly parents might appreciate, F is desperate to block any coervice control etc, and have them free, autonomous, with perhaps a legal guardian/independent representative and not beholden to NB.

Thanks for any pointers. Really much appreciated. Never been so desperate to help someone. Injustice and manipulation boils my blood

I don't really understand what you have written, but there seems to be a lot of suspicion rather than evidence.

Do parents have capacity to make their own decisions? People have the right to make decisions that you may view as unwise.

Keep_pedalling

You can’t block the sale, and having a house sitting empty for years is plan stupid, so selling it is the right thing to do.

If this is being done under power of attorney then the actions of the attorney can be flagged up to the office of the public guardian, but only if the couple have lost the mental capacity to make their own decisions.

da_rule

The options vary greatly depending on whether they have mental capacity to make the relevant decisions they are now making. The law starts off from an assumption that everyone has capacity so it would be up to your friend to prove that his parents don’t (if that is the case). As has been said, the law cannot (and does not want to) stop people making unwise, unfair or just damn right odd decisions - that is after all part of having free will.

1) If they have capacity then they could grant power of attorney to both siblings jointly, although this wouldn’t stop them signing things in their own right.

2) If they don’t have capacity then a child can apply to the Court of Protection for Deputyship. An interim order can also be made to prevent the sale of the house etc.

3) If they don’t have capacity and there is serious safeguarding concerns (which can be evidenced with actual tangible proof, rather than just one siblings resentment of another) then you can apply to the Court of Protection, via the welfare route, to seek an injunction preventing the ‘abuser’ from contacting the victim. Given the circumstances, the ‘abuser’ is the child (and landlord) of the ‘victims’ you are going to need some cast iron evidence before the court will entertain granting such a draconian order.

4) If they do have capacity and they are being manipulated in an unlawful manner it is possible to apply to the High Court and ask them to use their inherent jurisdiction to grant a similar order as set out above.

Any action is likely to be costly and highly explosive (for want if a better word). This is also a highly specialised area of law so you would need advice before proceeding.

The key thing to establish before anything can happen is whether they have capacity, not just to sell the house but also to manage and deal with the proceeds of the sale.

elsien

petere123 wrote: »

Once house sold, the proceeds might legally be lost to 'rent payments' to NB, rather than care & support of parents.

Also to add that at their age, however well they are, it is likely that are already getting care and support with some aspects of their lives. If this is not being provided by a care agency, then is it being provided by NB? In which case, the parents view of the dutiful child may not be entirely misplaced.

petere123

elsien wrote: »

Also to add that at their age, however well they are, it is likely that are already getting care and support with some aspects of their lives. If this is not being provided by a care agency, then is it being provided by NB? In which case, the parents view of the dutiful child may not be entirely misplaced.

Thanks very much for your response.
There is no formal care or support in place, and NB is self-absorbed, so concerned.
He always present when they meet gp, church folk, their only living friend, and their daugher.
Often answers questions directed at them, before they can even speak.

Far too much to say here, that isn't relevant really. Just concerned whether oversight from somehwere is available for elderly people

LilElvis

petere123 wrote: »

hello folks,
I'm trying to help a friend (F), whose narcissist sibling (NB), seems to have groomed parents years. Parents (89 95 yrs) have advertised family home for sale.
We suspect NB's influence, to asset grab from their accounts once sold. Family home empty many years, whilst they rent flat from him !. They pay a very high rent, so maybe out of cash. NB inherited that flat from an old man he 'looked after'. We just discovered this last few days, so now doubly worried about NB's intentions. That inheritance was massively undervalued, presumably to limit inheritance taxes. Hmrc notified, but as yet no follow-up. NB is a pillar of the local community, pulling the "isn't he lovely" wool over local church, coffee morning folk etc.

This seems like coercion & control of elderly parents, in sound mind (legally)but deluded about NB as a selfless, dutiful child.

F might not inherit anything from parents, if NB is to be believed. Naturally, this is a concern, and if true, maybe another example of NB influence. F lives a long way away, and NB lives next door to parents. See's them every day, all day if he chooses.

I'd really appreciate your insight if you have any, on how a house sale in these circumstances can be temporarily blocked, until authorities take an interest (Pensioner welfare charity concerned, and GP, but latter can do nothing without eg physical bruising). Recent laws re coercion, control and psychological manipulation seem to relate to couples, not sibling/parents, and in any case requires the Parents to see the light (whcih they do not).
Once house sold, the proceeds might legally be lost to 'rent payments' to NB, rather than care & support of parents.

As anyone with elderly parents might appreciate, F is desperate to block any coervice control etc, and have them free, autonomous, with perhaps a legal guardian/independent representative and not beholden to NB.

Thanks for any pointers. Really much appreciated. Never been so desperate to help someone. Injustice and manipulation boils my blood

What boils my blood are children who believe that they are entitled to anything from their parent's estate. The dastardly NB is almost certainly providing daily care for his elderly parents, and will have done for years, whilst your saintly friend F has done ......? Who does their shopping, cleaning, laundry, takes them to medical appointments - it's not your friend, it's that dastardly NB. Any idea how much work is involved in looking after a person of that age? I do because my Mum spent 15 years looking after her MIL, my grandmother. It got to the point where she was going to Grandma's two or three times a day, on top of the carer who went four times a day - that was seven days a week with my sister and I as back up when they went on holiday. It was a huge commitment for a woman who was in retirement herself. My aunt, who lived several hours away and did nothing other than pop in for coffee a couple of times a year (if that), took huge exception when she found that she had been left £10k compared to my parents £100k in my Grandma's will - she actually didn't attend the funeral and hasn't spoken to my parents since because she believed she was "entitled" to half. No coercion on my parents part - Grandma instructed the solicitors to write her will as she wished and without them there. The only thing that appears to stink in this story is the attitude of you and your equally charming friend.

petere123

keithdc wrote: »

....there seems to be a lot of suspicion rather than evidence.

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. Yep, this is about suspicion, not quantifiable, measurable evidence of coervice control.
Police, social services, have asked for evidence, but that's the problem.

elsien

Da_rules post is the most comprehensive answer. Long, complicated, and guaranteed to fracture relationships beyond repair when it's just suspicion that you're going on.

Age doesn't really come into it - bottom line is how would you feel if someone tried to take court action to prevent you from making your own decisions without any firm evidence, even though you had capacity, because they didn't like the decisions you were making?

Can the GP/local authority not ask to see the parents on their own?

petere123

LilElvis wrote: »

What boils my blood are children who believe that they are entitled to anything from their parent's estate. The dastardly NB is almost certainly providing daily care for his elderly parents"[/QUOTE

I'm sorry you went through that, but this was not an invitation to rant about your own experiences. Doesn't help you or me.

On what basis do you know "NB almost certainly providing daily care"? You'd have to know them, him, and observe over a period of time.