Waitrose, BW Legal, Britannia Parking, John Lewis Legal team

NeilCr

Personally, I'd make it much more concise and less aggressive. It sounds rather like a rant to be honest. Expecting people to go back to 2014 correspondence, to read and digest your email and then read the links you've referred to is probably too much.

And can you evidence some of your claims? Are Waitrose receiving a lot of adverse publicity? Have thousands of people got court papers etc? I am not saying these things aren't happening but you can't just say it

In the end it's about what you want to happen. You want the tickets cancelled. I tend to be a believer in polite but firm but others will say different. And remember this is the first time the recipients will have seen this email. You know all the history - they don't. Beamerguy's suggestions are good. If you overelaborate and overcomplicate their eyes will glaze over.

You (or whoever) received these tickets as RK. You are appalled/upset as a regular user of Waitrose that this happened and disappointed that they are using such a firm as BP to police their car parks. You feel that the tickets were issued illegally/wrongly and ask that they be cancelled. Something along the lines that Beamerguy said about hinting (rather than saying it directly) that there are other supermarkets you (and your family) could use.

Look. I don't know that much about parking tickets (as others here will testify). But, you've taken on a whole lot of information in a very short space of time and I'm not sure that you are getting it all right. People like Umkomaas and Coupon_Mad know what they are talking about. Listen to them and - while I understand your deadline - take a breath and slow down.

ETA

Umkomaas was posting while I wrote this. I agree with him. I lost it about half way!

BS_Newbie

Umkomaas wrote: »

No - don’t ask him if they are non-compliant, that is more likely to elicit an evasive response.

Better to ask whether the signage shown meets the requirements laid out in the BPA Code of Practice at the dates (years) shown against each sign (the Code of Practice changed from year to year, so there may have been some subtle changes as each CoP evolved).

Do you know what compliance criteria the signs have to meet? You need to have this stuff at your fingertips, especially if this progresses to court and you have to argue it.

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Practice-and-Compliance-Monitoring

Thanks very much Umkpmaas
in my original post of Pepipoo I laid out lots of clauses from the BPA COP that BP had not complied with and those signs were there till 2017.

I have also read the new guidelines and rest assured the RK will absolutely have a full list of every part of the BPA COP that the current signs do not comply with.

BS_Newbie

Umkomaas wrote: »

Give the date and the actual times shown on each ticket.


But this is 2 years before the tickets about which you are complaining, it is utterly irrelevant! For the last time - drop it. It is introducing an irrelevance that will confuse.


You should ask Waitrose to confirm unambiguously whether they have given BP written authority to sue their customers through the county courts in England and Wales, and if so, the date of that authority.


This is now an Act of Parliament (Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019). But suggesting he ‘familiarises himself’ is rather presumptuous and not likely to get him on your side!

Really? Deep pockets? Only threaten that which you are prepared for and capable of carrying out.

You need to trim down the letter, there’s too much of a rant brewing. I lost the will to read right through it in detail to the end - and I have an interest in parking issues. A busy CEO will be more interested in the latest sales figures of Waitrose sausages than parking charges. So you need to ‘catch his eye’ with a precision guided weapon rather than a Gatling gun.

excellent points and I shall amend accordingly

BS_Newbie

NeilCr wrote: »

Personally, I'd make it much more concise and less aggressive. It sounds rather like a rant to be honest. Expecting people to go back to 2014 correspondence, to read and digest your email and then read the links you've referred to is probably too much.

And can you evidence some of your claims? Are Waitrose receiving a lot of adverse publicity? Have thousands of people got court papers etc? I am not saying these things aren't happening but you can't just say it

In the end it's about what you want to happen. You want the tickets cancelled. I tend to be a believer in polite but firm but others will say different. And remember this is the first time the recipients will have seen this email. You know all the history - they don't. Beamerguy's suggestions are good. If you overelaborate and overcomplicate their eyes will glaze over.

You (or whoever) received these tickets as RK. You are appalled/upset as a regular user of Waitrose that this happened and disappointed that they are using such a firm as BP to police their car parks. You feel that the tickets were issued illegally/wrongly and ask that they be cancelled. Something along the lines that Beamerguy said about hinting (rather than saying it directly) that there are other supermarkets you (and your family) could use.

Look. I don't know that much about parking tickets (as others here will testify). But, you've taken on a whole lot of information in a very short space of time and I'm not sure that you are getting it all right. People like Umkomaas and Coupon_Mad know what they are talking about. Listen to them and - while I understand your deadline - take a breath and slow down.

ETA

Umkomaas was posting while I wrote this. I agree with him. I lost it about half way!

Excellent points and I have changed it and will post a separate post .

BS_Newbie

2nd go - more concise and hopefully more conciliatory
WAITROSE COMPLAINT

'Dear sir/Madam

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ABOUT BRITANNIA PARKING (BP) , AS AGENTS FOR WAITROSE

I am forced to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent, Britannia Parking, which are extremely upsetting, intimidatory and will drive away genuine Waitrose customers in the long run.

I am customer of Waitrose and I am also the registered Keeper of a Car that has received several Parking Charge Notices (PCN’s) whilst parked at the Waitrose store in Bishop’s Stortford and subsequently several letters from BP requesting payment for these PCN’s. Two of these PCN’s were for exactly the same time period on 20/12/16 (observed from 10:40:00 & observed to 12:35:41) and (observed from 10:40:18 & observed to 12:37:41). I was never the driver at the times these fake parking charges were issued and it is outrageous that BP thinks it is acceptable to try to extort two lots of payment for the same time period! It is also extremely disappointing that Waitrose has chosen to employ a company that uses such unacceptable practices to manage their car parks

I have now been sent a Letter dated 08/03/2019 from BP informing me that they have instructed their legal department, BW Legal to commence legal action against me in the form of issuing a claim against me in the county court in respect of unpaid “debt” if full payment or a response is not received by the 11th April 2019.

I am now expected to have to explain my actions to a third party private company who I have never had any dealings with, have no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from me . In my book that is incredibly aggressive and totally unacceptable. I am very upset and have become increasingly angry about this entire episode. My family is horrified that Waitrose can allow such a notorious firm to harass customers on your behalf.

I would be grateful if you can confirm unambiguously whether you have given BP written authority to sue their customers through the county courts in England and Wales, and if so, what is the the date of that authority?.

I have researched the matter extensively and I am aware of all options open to me, however, I am willing to give Waitrose the chance to quash all of these these fake PC’s and threatened legal action once and for all because I feel you need to know that your agents are alienating genuine customers due to BP’s zero-tolerance policy.

To save future problems that will lose customers and well before renewing your contracts with BP when the time comes, might I just suggest you terminate Britannia from all Waitrose car parks.

The implications to other Retailers, Supermarkets & customers, of parking companies such as BP who employ such aggressive business practices are set out in the full court judgment for 'Parking Eye v Somerfield - Case No: A3/2011/0909'. A recent private Members' Bill from Sir Greg Knight, Lord Hunt of Wirral has also been passed as law tackling these issues.

I would respectfully suggest that Waitrose thoroughly research the company you are associating with - in truth, BP have a terrible online reputation and are now suing customers over minor 'infringements' without referral to their clients, like yourselves, who may still naively believe that their agenda is 'parking management'.

It seems that Waitrose are receiving a lot of adverse publicity now that BP has become so litigious and it appears that so many clients seem to have been blinded by the idea of 'parking management for free' and have fallen for the spiel of a dominant company whose agenda is profit alone. It is not 'parking management' to have BP employees on site taking pictures of cars and stating they have observed an overstay yet provide no photographic evidence of both the start and finish time that the car was allegedly parked. Also no checks seem to be made for example when non-disabled people park in disabled bays. My opinion is that this is tantamount to pure profiteering by your agent, routinely 'farming' car parks with no consideration for individual customer needs and circumstances. This seems to be completely incompatible with the excellent customer service ethic of Waitrose.

I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to intervene immediately to instruct Britannia Parking cancel all the following PCN’s and proposed legal action forthwith.

PCN Tickets
1) PCN No xxxx 20/12/2016
2) PCN No xxxx 20/12/2016
3) PCN No xxxx 13/01/2018
4) PCN No xxxx 12/11/2018
5) PCN No xxxx 15/11/2018


yours faithfully
xxxxxxx

BS_Newbie

NeilCr wrote: »

Personally, I'd make it much more concise and less aggressive. It sounds rather like a rant to be honest. Expecting people to go back to 2014 correspondence, to read and digest your email and then read the links you've referred to is probably too much.

And can you evidence some of your claims? Are Waitrose receiving a lot of adverse publicity? Have thousands of people got court papers etc? I am not saying these things aren't happening but you can't just say it

In the end it's about what you want to happen. You want the tickets cancelled. I tend to be a believer in polite but firm but others will say different. And remember this is the first time the recipients will have seen this email. You know all the history - they don't. Beamerguy's suggestions are good. If you overelaborate and overcomplicate their eyes will glaze over.

You (or whoever) received these tickets as RK. You are appalled/upset as a regular user of Waitrose that this happened and disappointed that they are using such a firm as BP to police their car parks. You feel that the tickets were issued illegally/wrongly and ask that they be cancelled. Something along the lines that Beamerguy said about hinting (rather than saying it directly) that there are other supermarkets you (and your family) could use.

Look. I don't know that much about parking tickets (as others here will testify). But, you've taken on a whole lot of information in a very short space of time and I'm not sure that you are getting it all right. People like Umkomaas and Coupon_Mad know what they are talking about. Listen to them and - while I understand your deadline - take a breath and slow down.

ETA

Umkomaas was posting while I wrote this. I agree with him. I lost it about half way!

have amended said correspondence - got a bit carried away by the original letter !!!!!

BS_Newbie

Have also managed to draft an email to the BPA and I am leaving this alone for the rest of the day as my brain really is throbbing now.

Dear sir
I am the registered Keeper of a xxxxx car with number plate xxxxxxxx. I have been sent 5 letters relating to Parking Charge Notices (PCN’s) from 2016 and 2018 from one of your members, Britannia parking, at the Waitrose car park in Bishop’s Stortford (invoice numbers and dates of the PCN’s are confirmed below).

Two of these PCN’s were for exactly the same time period on 20/12/16 (observed from 10:40:00 & observed to 12:35:41) and (observed from 10:40:18 & observed to 12:37:41). I was never the driver at the times these fake parking charges were issued and it is outrageous that BP thinks it is acceptable to try to extort two lots of payment for exactly the same time period! It is also extremely disappointing that the BPA have allowed Britannia Parking to be one of their members when they employ such unacceptable practices to manage their car parks.

I have included with this email photographs that shows the signage that was present in 2016 and 2018 and as you can see the signs in 2016 had clearly been tampered with and display the word PENALTY very prominently which had been covered over by green sticky tape. You will also note that on entry to the site there are no full terms and conditions that the driver of a vehicle could read as they drive in.

I would be very grateful if you can please confirm if you think that for the signage shown in the enclosed photographs, your member, Britannia Parking, has provided proper signage that was clear and in full compliance as laid out in the BPA Code of Practice at the dates in 2016 & 2018 as per the PCN's and as shown against each sign?

Can you also please confirm if you have audited signs and what the date are of the audits that were carried out?

I have been sent a Letter dated 08/03/2019 from BP informing me that they have instructed their legal department, BW Legal to commence legal action against me in the form of issuing a claim against me in the county court in respect of unpaid “debt” if full payment or a response is not received by the 11th April 2019. I would therefore appreciate a reply from you as soon as possible please.

I am now expected to have to explain my actions to a third party private company who I have never had any dealings with, have no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from me . I am very upset and have become increasingly angry about this entire episode. My family is horrified that the BPA can allow such a notorious firm to be a member by harassing consumers in this way.

I have researched the matter extensively and I am aware of options open to me and and if necessary I will involve the local press and my MP.

PCN Tickets
1) PCN No xxxx 20/12/2016
2) PCN No xxxx 20/12/2016
3) PCN No xxxx 13/01/2018
4) PCN No xxxx 12/11/2018
5) PCN No xxxx 15/11/2018


I look forward to your reply.

Umkomaas

Your BPA letter is simply designed to get them to confirm whether the signs in 2016 and 2017 comply with the relevant CoP at the time. Nothing more, nothing less.

You just need a short introductory paragraph, then ask the question. But you seem hell-bent in your letters to swamp the reader with unnecessary detail and rant, in the process losing the significance and purpose for which they are intended.

Sorry, but I’ve spent a disproportionate amount of my time giving advice that seems not to be making the necessary impact. I’ll look in from time to time, but there are too many other new threads coming in to the forum that also need attention.

BS_Newbie

Your BPA letter is simply designed to get them to confirm whether the signs in 2016 and 2017 comply with the relevant CoP at the time. Nothing more, nothing less.

You just need a short introductory paragraph, then ask the question. But you seem hell-bent in your letters to swamp the reader with unnecessary detail and rant, in the process losing the significance and purpose for which they are intended.

Sorry, but I’ve spent a disproportionate amount of my time giving advice that seems not to be making the necessary impact. I’ll look in from time to time, but there are too many other new threads coming in to the forum that also need attention.

your advice is absolutely making the correct impact and as I've stated many times now I am extremely grateful.

This is the first time I've done this and I am not deliberately being obstructive here.

Your advice is taken on board.

beamerguy

BS Newbie ....... the letter to the BPA, whilst long, is fine and we will be interested to see how the BPA handle this.

They rate themselves as an accredited ATA to which many of us question such folly by the government. The reply will establish where the BPA stand on this. Any "fob off" must be sent to Sir Greg Knight who rightfully instigated the new code of practice and no doubt will not want a fly in the ointment.

Your letter to Waitrose/John Lewis is far too long. Doubtful they will even understand as they are just retailers. Being retailers, they are interested only in profits and the highlight must be that Britannia are not in the interests of customers. They will understand that lost customers will shop elsewhere

Don't over sell this, but you can highlight that customers will not accept a highly respected company stooping so low that shopping with them will result in being taken to court.