Waitrose, BW Legal, Britannia Parking, John Lewis Legal team

Umkomaas

As others have replied already it appears that neither the green ones nor the more recent ones are compliant with the BPA COP.

So go and get confirmation of that from Steve Clark. Just ask him the simple question. Then use that as one of the main planks of any defence - ‘The BPA have confirmed that none of the Britannia Parking signs at the car park in question complied with the BPA Code of Practice’ (you can add to the defence that The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis stated that the Code of Practice was effectively binding on the PPC and compliance with it was the only way a PPC could access RK personal data from the DVLA).

Then once you have confirmation of non-compliance, you write to the DVLA.

Simple procedures to get a real spanner chucked into the works, spend your time on those and give the pictures a rest.

twhitehousescat

I think the dates need amending as well , typed correctly , and years corrected , as in most cases it looks like britannia have been treating this car park as ANPR controlled , this will not go down well with the DVLA and BPA , especially if dated tickets and dated follow up letters (NTK) are produced

BS_Newbie

Umkomaas wrote: »

Are you saying that T1 and T2 first letters arrived over 13 months later?

T3 - unless a time machine is involved, this is a logistical impossibility.
T4 - more than 11 months elapsed between parking event and NtK?

We are now drowning in a sea of questionable detail that isn’t taking this very far forward.

The thread has more pictures now than my grandson’s Noddy Annual!

morning Umkomaas - I am really sorry - I am extremely tired and I got the dates wrong - some were typos and the others were from the final reminders - I've amended the earlier post

here are the correct dates
T1) date issued to car 20/12/16 (10:40:00 - 12:35:41) date of first letter thru post 24/01/2018
T2) date issued to car 20/12/16 (10:40:18 - 12:37:41) date of first letter thru post 24/01/2018
T3) date issued to car 13/01/2018 date of first letter thru post 14/02/2018
T4) date issued to car 12/11/2018 date of first letter thru post 12/12/2018
T5) date issued to car 15/11/2018 date of first letter thru post 20/12/2018

Umkomaas wrote: »

Are you saying that T1 and T2 first letters arrived over 13 months later?

Yes that is exactly correct

T3 - unless a time machine is involved, this is a logistical impossibility.

my mistake as explained above

T4 - more than 11 months elapsed between parking event and NtK?

ditto as previous point

We are now drowning in a sea of questionable detail that isn’t taking this very far forward.

I am really sorry about this and I am not sure what detail is questionable. if you go back to my 1st post that explains it all and can be summed up as follows -
A) March 2018 BP instruct BW Legal for non payment of PCNS all of which are for overstay in same waitrose car park
5 PCNS involved , 2 almost identical ones from 2016 and 3 from 2018

other factors
1) 2 different sets of non BPA compliant signs at car park; up to 2017 green signs.. After
2017 - blue ones
2) Same car for all PCNS and RK was not the driver on any occassion.
3) potential for all PCNS to be non POFA compliant

The thread has more pictures now than my grandson’s Noddy Annual!

and it is only going to get worse as I am about to upload the lettters from BP for the last three tickets ......

BS_Newbie

Umkomaas wrote: »

So go and get confirmation of that from Steve Clark. Just ask him the simple question. Then use that as one of the main planks of any defence - ‘The BPA have confirmed that none of the Britannia Parking signs at the car park in question complied with the BPA Code of Practice’ (you can add to the defence that The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis stated that the Code of Practice was effectively binding on the PPC and compliance with it was the only way a PPC could access RK personal data from the DVLA).

Thanks Umkomaas - I have a list of things to do from ll the very helpful replies from yesterday and this is one of the things on the list which will be dealt with quickly as the deasdline date to write to BW Legal is the 11th April in a week. the RK intends to confirm with BW that they have written to the BPA and have sent a SAR to Brittania and request that this is put on hold until replies are sent

Is this acceptable ??.

Then once you have confirmation of non-compliance, you write to the DVLA.

With the letter to the DVLA would this be just to inform them what the BP have stated or would other details need to be included in that letter - sorry if this is a stupid question but I not sure what should be put in that letter

Simple procedures to get a real spanner chucked into the works, spend your time on those and give the pictures a rest.

I agree and I will only post up one of the PCN/Final reminder letters from Britannia as ll three are identical an the RK has found the original windscreen tickets so we have those as well.

Thanks very much again - my brain is really overloaded but making fast progress in a short space of time

twhitehousescat

Then once you have confirmation of non-compliance, you write to the DVLA.
With the letter to the DVLA would this be just to inform them what the BP have stated or would other details need to be included in that letter - sorry if this is a stupid question but I not sure what should be put in that letter


at this point in time you just need the info as to who/when asked for your info , as it would look like the probable failed to on at least one ticket (the duplicated one) and the timings for the rest are so "consise"

ie they ask for your details on day 29 , and yet can get a reply from the DVLA and have a letter printed and posted the same day , so that you get it on day 30

for example , ticket one , date issued to car 20/12/16 what is the date on the NTK letter ?

Umkomaas

3) potential for all PCNS to be non POFA compliant

T1, T2 and T5 are definitely not compliant based purely on dates, no need to look for any other discrepancies on those.

T3 and T4 are a close call based solely on dates. On dates alone it will depend on when your data was accessed from the DVLA.

If windscreen tickets were involved, they have no right to access your data until after day 28 following the parking event. So if they did this at the very earliest legitimate time, getting the NtKs out to you by the dates you have given would take some feat of near magic.

If they are using ANPR (or more likely a handheld camera) they can access the database immediately but then have to issue the NtK to arrive with you within 14 days after the parking event (count the day of the event as day 0, then work forward). In which case, on dates alone, the NtKs are not PoFA compliant.

So in order to ‘bottom’ this (for all tickets) you should email the DVLA and ask which organisations (when and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the dates of the parking incidents. You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge.

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

Outside of PoFA time limits there is also a time limit for data access of 6 months built into the DVLA:PPC contract (KADOE) which might have been breached in T1, T2 and T5 given the huge time gaps between parking events and NtKs.

You can make life very uncomfortable for Britannia as long as you have clear focus and not allow all the detail that’s flying around here at the moment deflect you from what can carve a clear path through.

twhitehousescat

T5) date issued to car 15/01/2018 date of first letter thru post 20/12/2018


do you mean date issued to car 20/12/2018 letter recieved 15/01/2019

BS_Newbie

twhitehousescat wrote: »

when a ticket is placed on the vehicle , the Parking Co cannot apply to the DVLA for details until day 29

it would seem that in all the cases above , they have treat them as ANPR type tickets (within 14 days) and as such have asked the DVLA for your details illegally

Oh that is very interesting informtion - thank you for this - absolutely no ANPR in operstion as they have BP employees in that car park, no cameras anywhere and they do not record what time you arrive and leave .

Also they never provide photographic evidence for the observed from time that they state on the NTK - they only provide pics which do not correspond to the observed from time.

Also it is impossible to see any of the PCN's on BP website - if you try to pay it says they are having issues and if you click the appeal link it states that they have no record of this PCN - this applies to all 5 of the PCN's they are trying to chase payment for .

Umkomaas

With the letter to the DVLA would this be just to inform them what the BP have stated or would other details need to be included in that letter - sorry if this is a stupid question but I not sure what should be put in that letter

Right, there are two letters for the DVLA.

1. You want the dates of access of your data for all 5 tickets as per my immediate prior post. Get that first, fact finding, laying out the ground.

2. The second letter will be sent following the response to your letter to Steve Clark. Depending on what SC says will determine what you say to the DVLA - we can help with wording at the time. If it’s really incriminating (like ‘none of the signs is compliant with the BPA Code of Practice’), then you could almost send a copy with a note saying ‘Please see attached’! But nothing to do on this until you hear from SC.

Umkomaas

Also it is impossible to see any of the PCN's on BP website - if you try to pay it says they are having issues and if you click the appeal link it states that they have no record of this PCN - this applies to all 5 of the PCN's they are trying to chase payment for .

That’s more than likely because they’ve shunted them off (along with tens of thousands of other sub-dormant unpaid claims) to BWL for mass-serving of LBCs. You are definitely not alone!