20% restocking fee

BrightonSake

George_Michael wrote: »

But if it is Canford audio then they wouldn't have known that the OP was a consumer and not a business as when registering, you get this:

This is a form for Contact Permissions. There are much clearer ways to tell whoever is on your site that they need to be a business. But even still, in the section you refer to, there are two questions:

Industry sector has an option for "End User" - meaning private consumer

Organisation Type has an option for "Other"

And should it even concern me that they don't know I'm not a business? I'm logging onto a website to buy something, filling in questions honestly. They need to tell me clearly, I shouldn't have to search for clues!

George_Michael wrote: »

and when checking out, you must enter a company name or state that you are a sole trader

If that was true, then I agree, but unfortunately it doesn't ask you to state you're a sole trader. It says "If you are a sole trader, please enter your own name as the company name".

George_Michael wrote: »

Those two boxes along with all of the other details on their website makes it very clear that they don't want to deal with consumer sales.

As iI've pointed out, nothing "makes it very clear that they don't want to deal with consumer sales". I've stated in the Contact Permissions that I'm an End User, which certainly isn't a business. If it was clear, I wouldn't have made the purchase.

BrightonSake

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Both those point may be true but OP states they are not a business but are a consumer.

If the retailer doesn't want to accept orders from a consumer they shouldn't have fulfilled the order.

Absolutely, or at least warn private consumers that they only sell to business. Not hidden away within the website

BrightonSake

Supersonos wrote: »

How do you figure they're targeting private individuals? They don't have any high street shops, or advertise in any non-trade newspapers or magazines. They don't advertise on the radio. Or the TV.

So how are they targeting you? I would imagine you just found them via Google.

They are targeting me by having a website open for private consumers to buy from without making it clear that they only sell business to business. Which of course wouldn't be true - they sold to me

BrightonSake

Supersonos wrote: »

Most people would see that exVAT prices and the words "trade" and "professional" all over the website to be quite an obvious pointer that the site is not consumers.

Canford's site couldn't say "pro" or "professional" more times. It's all over their site. Even when you Google, the heading is "Canford - Professional audio, video and broadcast equipment".

The equipment they sell is known as Pro Audio. It's a standard term to describe professional level audio equipment. Much Pro Audio is bought by private consumers. The fact that it says pro all over the site doesn't indicate to me that the site only wishes to sell to other businesses. Other consumer sites selling this equipment use the same words.

Supersonos wrote: »

And I would also assume the website asked for things like your company name and your VAT number.

I would also assume this, but they didn't ask for a VAT number, or similar.

BrightonSake

Supersonos wrote: »

The fact prices are displayed ex VAT should have been a big pointer. Consumers can not be VAT registered.

If it is indeed Canford Audio, they are a B2B business. Their T&Cs even say:

"2.3 All orders are accepted on the basis that they are from a bona fide trading entity or professional end-user. The Buyer acknowledges that the Seller’s products are unsuitable for domestic or retail applications and the Buyer accordingly undertakes to the Seller that it is a bona fide trading entity or professional end-user. The Buyer further acknowledges that the laws governing the Contract shall be those relating to business to business (rather than business to consumer) ..."

Unfortunately, you entered into this when you bought the goods, so you're bound by the restocking fees, return fees etc.

I think this is a good point. I didn't read through their Terms and Conditions before making the purchase. I think it comes down to whether a website just needs to:
1) Display prices ex VAT
2) State B2B status in Terms and Conditions
To not have to comply with Consumer Contract Regulations

Or should they have to make it clear, ie, state it to the purchaser, or display it somewhere where you'll see it on the website? Warning consumers, or even making an effort to stop consumers buying?

BrightonSake

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Presumably if they wish to be trade only then they need to vet their customers otherwise every website would claim to B2B to avoid the cost of complying with consumer laws.

This makes sense to me, and would have stopped me from making the purchase

Supersonos

BrightonSake wrote: »

They are targeting me by having a website open for private consumers to buy from without making it clear that they only sell business to business. Which of course wouldn't be true - they sold to me

Myself and some others have pointed out how they make it clear they only sell B2B. And there's none more clear than Canford's T&Cs.

I'm afraid you're clutching at straws. You'll just have to swallow the extra charges and chalk this one up as experience.

BrightonSake wrote: »

If that was true, then I agree, but unfortunately it doesn't ask you to state you're a sole trader. It says "If you are a sole trader, please enter your own name as the company name".

Are you a sole trader? Because the answer to "If you are a sole trader, please enter your own name as the company name" is either:

A) I am a sole trader and entered my own name or
I am not a sole trader but entered my own name anyway to complete the purchase

If your answer is B, that is the moment whereby you suggested to Canford audio that you were a sole trader. You might like to call it Canford's "vetting process" to ensure consumers don't purchase from them.

Unless, of course, consumers lie in order to purchase from them.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The problem with this situation is we are giving our opinions, it would be interesting to see where the law sits with this.

The below is not passing comment on the company named just a general observation, but some B2B companies seek growth by expanding into consumer sales.

Having an open site with prices displayed and little resistance to registering easily allows those who are not a business to purchase and may well be attractive to consumers.

Seeking those sales but then claiming the buyer is a business because they put their name in a field labelled company name or because the terms says it's a B2B contract doesn't hold much weight in my view.

Equally to the OP it's worth noting that if you use this equipment for anything that generates you income (at a quick glance the site mentioned sells high end audio equipment so playing in a band at a local pub for money or earning ad revenue from YouTube videos, etc) would class you as a business.

Supersonos

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Equally to the OP it's worth noting that if you use this equipment for anything that generates you income (at a quick glance the site mentioned sells high end audio equipment so playing in a band at a local pub for money or earning ad revenue from YouTube videos, etc) would class you as a business.

Are you sure about that? Just because someone supplements their income by playing in their local pub on a Sunday night, I don't think that makes them a business.

If you've registered yourself as a sole trader (and therefore do your own taxes) or own a limited company, then you're a business.

If the OP is so confident he's been diddled, return the product and when they refund you minus the 20% fee, take them to small claims court and let a judge decide.

neilmcl

Supersonos wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Just because someone supplements their income by playing in their local pub on a Sunday night, I don't think that makes them a business.

If you've registered yourself as a sole trader (and therefore do your own taxes) or own a limited company, then you're a business.

If the OP is so confident he's been diddled, return the product and when they refund you minus the 20% fee, take them to small claims court and let a judge decide.

If he's making a declarable income then yes, he is acting as a business, or rather a professional. You don't have to be a sole trader or limited company to be in business.

Also, it's not a question of whether the OP's is a business, it's more to do whether the OP is recognised as a consumer (or not) in the eyes of the law. The CRA clearly defines a consumer as "an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.", therefore if the OP was buying products from a trade only outlet aimed at professionals one can assume that the products purchased would be for professional use.

I note the OP hasn't actually mentioned what this product is?