20% restocking fee

Takmon

Supersonos wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Just because someone supplements their income by playing in their local pub on a Sunday night, I don't think that makes them a business.

If you've registered yourself as a sole trader (and therefore do your own taxes) or own a limited company, then you're a business.

If someone even played once at their local pub and earned money from it they would have to register as a sole trader and declare that income. Even people who do online surveys and earn a couple of quid at a time have to do this as well.

Once you start earning money from something it stop being a hobby and becomes a business venture no matter how small. Otherwise a lot of genuine businesses would suddenly become hobbies.

Supersonos wrote: »

If the OP is so confident he's been diddled, return the product and when they refund you minus the 20% fee, take them to small claims court and let a judge decide.

George_Michael

BrightonSake wrote: »

Industry sector has an option for "End User" - meaning private consumer

"End user" does not always mean a private consumer. A business can also be the end user of a product.

BrightonSake wrote: »

If that was true, then I agree, but unfortunately it doesn't ask you to state you're a sole trader. It says "If you are a sole trader, please enter your own name as the company name".

Exactly right.
The only two options for entering information into that box are:

1/ If you are a company, you enter your company name.
2/ If you are not purchasing on behalf of a company but are acting as a sole trader then you enter your personal name. A sole trader is still a business purchaser.

Supersonos

neilmcl wrote: »

If he's making a declarable income then yes, he is acting as a business, or rather a professional. You don't have to be a sole trader or limited company to be in business.

Takmon wrote: »

If someone even played once at their local pub and earned money from it they would have to register as a sole trader and declare that income.

Then this whole discussion is surely moot?

If the OP was acting as a business, then the CRA doesn't apply, so he needs to pay the restocking fee.

If the OP was acting as a consumer, the CRA doesn't apply as he decided to purchase from a B2B trader and lied during the process, so he needs to pay the restocking fee.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

neilmcl wrote: »

therefore if the OP was buying products from a trade only outlet aimed at professionals one can assume that the products purchased would be for professional use.

I note the OP hasn't actually mentioned what this product is?

I think it's fair to assume that professional products can be desired by a consumer.

With this example a group of friends having a blast together may want the best possible equipment even if they have zero intention of ever making money from what do.

OP just needs to be sure they are (beyond reasonable doubt) a consumer.

Supersonos

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

OP just needs to be sure they are (beyond reasonable doubt) a consumer.

If someone is, beyond doubt, a consumer, when purchasing from Canford, what should they put in the box that asks for the company name or the sole trader's name?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

George_Michael wrote: »

Exactly right.
The only two options for entering information into that box are:

1/ If you are a company, you enter your company name.
2/ If you are not purchasing on behalf of a company but are acting as a sole trader then you enter your personal name. A sole trader is still a business purchaser.

A very robust system for ensuring a company only deals with businesses!

I've dealt with many wholesalers and distributors over the years, they all wanted a trade reference when filling in the application.

My wife has a Bookers account, they wanted to see something that proved she was a business.

I don't buy it that if this went to small claims (our opinions aside this is what it comes down to) that having to put your name in box titled "company" would sign away your consumer rights.

George_Michael

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

I don't buy it that if this went to small claims (our opinions aside this is what it comes down to) that having to put your name in box titled "company" would sign away your consumer rights.

But it's not only that one box but even if it was, that one box is very clear, you are a business or you are a sole trader. There is no option for a non business purchaser.

Their T&Cs clearly state on more than one occasion that they only sell to business users, their prices are all shown VAT exclusive and any purchase made means that you are agreeing to those T&C's.

It seems like some people want the benefit of low prices that often come from trade only outlets with the consumer rights that don't come from those places.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

George_Michael wrote: »

But it's not only that one box but even if it was, that one box is very clear, you are a business or you are a sole trader. There is no option for a non business purchaser.

Their T&Cs clearly state on more than one occasion that they only sell to business users, their prices are all shown VAT exclusive and any purchase made means that you are agreeing to those T&C's.

It seems like some people want the benefit of low prices that often come from trade only outlets with the consumer rights that don't come from those places.

Which leaves the system open to abuse, if a company can set up a site, allow anyone to register, anyone to buy in single quantities and presumably at prices which are attractive* then consumer rights are pointless if they can just be signed away by the company stating they only deal with businesses.

*Some of the companies I've dealt with might let you get through but if you buy in single units the prices would be more expensive than retailers, the system is set so you buy in quantity to achieve a trade discount.

George_Michael

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Which leaves the system open to abuse,

And if a customer knowingly abuses that system, why should they then be able to profit from rights that they shouldn't have?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

then consumer rights are pointless if they can just be signed away by the company stating they only deal with businesses.

But in this instance, it wasn't only the company saying that they only deal with businesses.
The OP filled out the form stating that he was a business.

I can't see how that website could have made it any clearer that they are a B2B seller.

Many websites rely on customers reading up on what they are agreeing to and filling in their details truthfully and fully and in the case in hand, if the form was filled in correctly and truthfully then the OP wouldn't have been able to make their purchase.

shaun_from_Africa

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

A very robust system for ensuring a company only deals with businesses!

How about places that have different prices for children and adults?

My daughter is 17 but looks far younger.
She could easily get into cinemas and onto buses and trains by paying the reduced child rate and not get asked for proof of her age.

Not very robust systems but does this mean that it's okay for my daughter to abuse these systems?