CEL County Court claim - Defence help

Wilier

Hi
So, like many on here I have received a County Court Claim from Civil Enforcement Ltd on the 1st Mar. Claim form is dated 25th Feb.

I have read and followed the guidance on the Newbies section #2 and completed the Acknowledgement of Service on MCOL dated the 3rd March. I received acknowledgement on the 4th March. I presume this gives me until 25th March to file my Defence?

The background is that the car was photographed entering and exiting a Hotel car park last year. The total duration of the stay was 13 minutes.

• We were patrons of the hotel that day and have receipts to prove that.
• The car was not parked in the hotel car park whilst we had lunch, but instead on a nearby road.
• The driver collected the car and brought it to the hotel car park after we had finished lunch to pick up another of the party who was paying the bill.
• The driver never left the car whilst in the car park.
  

I, the registered keeper, received the PCN a couple of weeks later demanding £60 if paid within 14 days or £100 there-after. I can’t recall the exact date so do not know if they failed to notify keeper within the 14 day limit. The PCN issue date was dated 10th May 2018 but I don’t know when it was sent.

I contacted the hotel to complain as we were patrons on the day but was told they could not overturn the ticket. They also stated that since they introduced the parking system (ANPR with Ipad input) that it had caught out a lot of regular customers and that even the Hotel owner was ticketed on a regular basis, but he ignored them. They admitted the position of the ipad wasn’t prominent enough and that we should simply ignore the letters as they tend to let them off. I duly followed this instruction.

Since the original PCN, I received the following:-

• “Final Reminder before legal action” letter – 16 July 2018
• Letter threatening to pass to debt collection – 5th Sept 2018 (debt raised to £140)
• ZZPS debt collection agency letter – 9th Oct 2018 ( debt raised to £170)
• ZZPS ‘Notice of Intended Legal collections’ letter – 23rd Oct 2018 (£170)
• QDR Solicitors letter on behalf of ZZPS – 12th Nov 2018 ( debt raised to £182
• CEL letter stating ‘Pre Action Conduct & Protocol’ & ‘Beavis Case’ giving final opportunity to pay otherwise if I didn’t respond within 30 days they would start County Court proceeding. – 7th Jan 2019.
  

I ignored all of the above demands.

I then received the County Court claim on the 1st March.

The particular of the claim are as follows:-
Claim for monies relating to a Parking Charge for parking in a private car park managed by the claimant in breach of the terms and conditions (T+Cs). Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the T+Cs of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering + exiting the site. Debt + damages claimed the sum of £182.00.
Violation date XXX
Time in XXXX Time out XXX
Car registration XXXXXXX
PCN Ref XXXXX
Car Park XXXXXX

(Ref: ce website or Tel 01158225020)
The claimant claims the sum of £193.65 for monies relating to a parking charge per above including £11.65 interest pursuant to the S.69 of the County Court Act 1984.
Rate 8.00% PA from dates above to XXX. Same rate to judgement or sooner payment.
Daily rate to judgement 0.005
Total debt and interest due £193.65

The statement of truth on the claim form was signed Civil Enforcement ltd.

I now need to draft my defence now but finding it very difficult as I don’t know what to write.

Is my defence specific to my situation (i.e we were patrons and have receipts to prove it, never saw the signs nor the ipad, driver unidentified etc.) or do I defend on the generic grounds which seem to be contained within a lot of the defence statements seen in the Newbies thread?

I’ve looked through many defence statements on the newbie thread but not many refer to iPad scenario although I did one that relates to ANPR/ iPads but unsure if I can use as its slightly different.

Apologies but I’m really not familiar with the legal processes and to be honest quite scared of the whole affair. I’d be really grateful for some guidance and assistance.

Thank you.

Clare237

They are horrible to deal with aren’t they? I got a pcn in similar circumstances (day out, inputted number in machine, still got invoice through post). I haven’t had any help from the place I visited at all.

I didn’t hear anything for over 12 months and then got a default ccj because I moved house...

You have come to the right place because the help in here is amazing.

The_Deep

If you think that the hotel are not being sufficiently supportive, comment adversely on Facebook, TripAdvisor and twitter, and complain to your MP.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Hopefully, this will become law by Easter .

Wilier

They are indeed horrible to deal with and it is extremely stressful experience.

I'm now at the defence stage but struggling to know how to pull it together.

I'm hoping the experts on here can guide me through what I need to do in order to beat what seems to be an unfair and illegal penalty.

nosferatu1001

Dont be scared.
Its just an office and a talk. YEs there is some formaltiy, but there is no major life changing downside.

Newbies thread -> Post 2

Read and absorb, then read again
Have you acknolwedged the claim?
what is the DATE OF ISSUE of the claim?

Wilier

Thanks. This is uncharted waters for me so way outside my comfort zone.

Yes - have read (and re-read) the Newbies thread and #2 many times.
Yes - Acknowledge the claim on MCOL on the 3rd March.
The issue date on the Claim form is 25th Feb 2019

I believe I now have till the 25th March 2019 to file my Defence.

This is the point I'm really struggling with.(i.e. My defence). I don't know where to begin.
There is a similar case against Parking eye where an iPad/ ANPR system was used. I'd add the link but as a new user this site does not allow me. It was added by Coupon-mad

Can I use this as the basis of my argument or do I need to start from scratch?

Peanut1971

I apologise profusely in advance but why can’t I see new thread post in the top left as I am meant to? I need to put up a post and I can’t even get that far?? S.O.S

Redx

Wilier wrote: »

1) This is uncharted waters for me so way outside my comfort zone.

Yes - have read (and re-read) the Newbies thread and #2 many times.
2) Yes - Acknowledge the claim on MCOL on the 3rd March.
The issue date on the Claim form is 25th Feb 2019

3) I believe I now have till the 25th March 2019 to file my Defence.

4) This is the point I'm really struggling with.(i.e. My defence). I don't know where to begin.

5) There is a similar case against Parking eye where an iPad/ ANPR system was used. I'd add the link but as a new user this site does not allow me. It was added by Coupon-mad

6) Can I use this as the basis of my argument or do I need to start from scratch?

1) so same as every other NEWBIES that comes here with a court claim, you are no different so its the same advice for you and for them as well

2) good

3) wrong , you have 33 days from the issue date , so around the end of this month, but it doesnt need to be last minute so aim for your own date, just to be sure

4) you should start with the concise defence by member BARGEPOLE , same as almost everyone else, and as CM said recently

most people can use bargepole's concise template defence from the NEWBIES thread, and add in a point or two about the facts of the case/contravention/why they are not liable.

And a point about no landowner authority as seen in other defences.

5) hogwash , this site doesnt allow you to add a LIVE LINK but it definitely allows you to add a DEAD LINK, so change http to hxxp so we can see what you are talking about, then we will convert the link to a live link

6) possibly, but let us see it first , see 5) above

and have you done the SAR by email to the DPO at CEL ? same as we tell everyone to do and is in that NEWBIES thread you have read many times ?

bear in mind that any defence is a legal challenge to the legal claim made by the PPC, so strictly speaking nobody is interested in any "story" at this time, just the legal reason why you as defendant are not liable for this invoice or court claim


as all the other newbies who come here, you have tunnel vision about what happened, instead of focussing on just the legal arguments to be placed into your defence that challenge the court claim

nosferatu1001

Peanut - at a guess youre using a phone. Dont. Use a laptop.

KeithP

Are you saying that the Issue Date on your Claim Form is 25th February? Please confirm.

If so, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 1st April 2019 to file your Defence.

A few more days than you thought.

Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

Wilier

Yes- Done the SAR by email to the DPO at CEL.

Here is the defence by Coupon-mad that I referred to earlier ( but was not able to attach on a link)

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74254129#post74254129

Would this be a sufficient legal challenge in my case and/or is there any additions/ amends required?