SMETS1 smart meters to have ‘full functionality’ from May

matelodave

Ok then, if they shut-off when the money runs out why does everyone get so vocal because smart meters can do the same - whats the difference?

badmemory

I believe the difference is that on a PAYG meter you know when it is running out of money & about to turn off, whereas if you pay/don't actually pay the bill (not the meter) then they could have turned it off remotely without you knowing it was about to happen, which could be dangerous.

[Deleted User]

badmemory wrote: »

I believe the difference is that on a PAYG meter you know when it is running out of money & about to turn off, whereas if you pay/don't actually pay the bill (not the meter) then they could have turned it off remotely without you knowing it was about to happen, which could be dangerous.

They not allowed to disconnect remotely AFAIK. A smart PAYG will shut down the gas every time they run out of emergency credit but start up instantly some money is credited. Smart credit meter should never shut off because remote disconnect is nt allowed.
.Supplier will have to struggle to get in the property and get a warrant if needed to gain access to the meter and remove and cap supply, as they do now with dumb meters ..Seems bonkers but thats how it appears to be working.
The only whining I ve heard about supply shutting down is when battery dies and shuts off supply for possibly a couple of days until a new meter is exchanged .. There have been smart gas meter s shutting down with a dead battery in as short a time as three years

Michaelw

My L&G prepayment meter failed in two years.


Can I request a second generation smart meter? I'm willing to have one fitted but don't want to waste my time with an outdated device

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-6777671/Can-specifically-request-second-generation-smart-meter.html

I am going to try and get British Gas E470 removed and that external hub.The display cannot be seen clearly,I have never seen such a bad design of display.

[Deleted User]

Michaelw wrote: »

My L&G prepayment meter failed in two years.


Can I request a second generation smart meter? I'm willing to have one fitted but don't want to waste my time with an outdated device

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-6777671/Can-specifically-request-second-generation-smart-meter.html

I am going to try and get British Gas E470 removed and that external hub.The display cannot be seen clearly,I have never seen such a bad design of display.

Could be something to do with that individual meter because I ve been reading thousands of those with no bother.The worst by a country mile are all Secure Liberty meters, both gas and electric.just unreadable at certain angles in poor access areas. All L and G s have been fine compared to those .Having said that all the digital meters are absolute rubbish compared to a good old analogue Weston Sangamo (not the dial meters )..Can read em from 5 yards away

phillw

Uxb1 wrote: »

Well when they read on here about the disasters with the low cost suppliers and the hours people waste on the phone on them have Direct bebit disasters and the rest they probably conclude that the likely cost of their time in sorting all this stuff out is rather more than the imagined savings.

While I accept that switching and dealing with issues does take time, if I could get an equivalent income then I'd just spend a day a week on the phone and never have to work again.

It's not financially worth switching if you can earn £200 an hour, although you may choose to for fun.

Houbara wrote: »

They not allowed to disconnect remotely AFAIK. A smart PAYG will shut down the gas every time they run out of emergency credit but start up instantly some money is credited. Smart credit meter should never shut off because remote disconnect is nt allowed.

I may be pedantic but they can use the remote disconnection facility to disconnect you.

"British Gas confirmed that “remote disconnection” is possible but that smart meters grant no additional powers to disconnect than with standard meters. A spokesman for the energy giant said they would never disconnect a customer without an engineer visiting the property."

Currently if you refuse to pay your bill then they eventually go to court to shut off your supply, however to gain access to the property they can only drill locks. If you have bolted the door from the inside they can't smash your door in. At that point they have to go away and arrange digging up the road to disconnect you.

With a smart credit meter they don't have to dig up the road.

You shouldn't be worried that a failed DD is going to cut your energy off, but you also shouldn't get a smart meter if you are planning on never paying your bill again as it does make it easier for them

Having an engineer turn up and bang on the door and a locksmith drilling your locks would probably be considered giving you enough notice that they are going to remotely disconnect you. I think you'd have trouble arguing that it wasn't and you needed to hear them digging the road first.

Although from British Gas's statement it is unclear if they need to try to drill the locks, or if just having an engineer turn up and bang on the door and not be granted access would be enough. Time will tell on that.

The number of disconnections in the UK is relatively low though, so it might take a while.

"According to industry regulator Ofgem's figures, disconnection is incredibly rare. In 2016, there were 157 for electricity and 53 for gas. British Gas said it hasn’t disconnected a residential customer in almost eight years."

victor2

phillw wrote: »

While I accept that switching and dealing with issues does take time, if I could get an equivalent income then I'd just spend a day a week on the phone and never have to work again.

It's not financially worth switching if you can earn £200 an hour, although you may choose to for fun.

I'm lucky in that I can afford to spend time analysing my utility usage and the associated cost - and actually enjoy doing so. But I do come across a lot of (particularly older) people who are afraid of switching and only hear the horror stories of people getting smart meters and their costs increasing.

Try explaining to them that smart meters in themselves will neither increase or decrease your usage, but will mean you get accurate bills - so long as you DON'T switch away from whoever installed the meters, if they're SMETS1 standard - and you understandably confuse them and make them conclude they'll leave well alone.
It's been a government promoted disaster. I'm waiting to see what happens when my smart gas meter, installed by BG, with whom I am no longer a customer, needs a new battery. Presumably all these early installations will start failing at about the same time. It might be 10 years down the road, but it will come. Will it cut off my gas supply, or just become impossible to read? Because I've switched away it is of course no longer smart. BG even remotely disabled the in-house display when I left them, so the meters really are dumb now. Although maybe they are still providing BG with details of my usage. Who knows?

[Deleted User]

phillw wrote: »

While I accept that switching and dealing with issues does take time, if I could get an equivalent income then I'd just spend a day a week on the phone and never have to work again.

It's not financially worth switching if you can earn £200 an hour, although you may choose to for fun.



I may be pedantic but they can use the remote disconnection facility to disconnect you.

"British Gas confirmed that “remote disconnection” is possible but that smart meters grant no additional powers to disconnect than with standard meters. A spokesman for the energy giant said they would never disconnect a customer without an engineer visiting the property."

Currently if you refuse to pay your bill then they eventually go to court to shut off your supply, however to gain access to the property they can only drill locks. If you have bolted the door from the inside they can't smash your door in. At that point they have to go away and arrange digging up the road to disconnect you.

With a smart credit meter they don't have to dig up the road.

You shouldn't be worried that a failed DD is going to cut your energy off, but you also shouldn't get a smart meter if you are planning on never paying your bill again as it does make it easier for them

Having an engineer turn up and bang on the door and a locksmith drilling your locks would probably be considered giving you enough notice that they are going to remotely disconnect you. I think you'd have trouble arguing that it wasn't and you needed to hear them digging the road first.

Although from British Gas's statement it is unclear if they need to try to drill the locks, or if just having an engineer turn up and bang on the door and not be granted access would be enough. Time will tell on that.

The number of disconnections in the UK is relatively low though, so it might take a while.

"According to industry regulator Ofgem's figures, disconnection is incredibly rare. In 2016, there were 157 for electricity and 53 for gas. British Gas said it hasn’t disconnected a residential customer in almost eight years."

Thanks, yes its possible to remotely disconnect as BG have said but I ve never known them do that. They have to spend upwards of £250 going through the drawn out process of appearing in court for a warrant, sending Revenue Protection Officer(s) plural if they expect trouble and employing a locksmith to drill or pick the locks.. It all costs but these costs are simply passed on and included in any debts.. They will get in too, even if it means calling for Police back up.. So given the chance I think the occupier in debt would prefer someone to pull the switch remotely..Its a lot cheaper.. That is how the rest of the world would do it .
I have only ever seen any supplier dig up the road once in 20 years and remove all access to energy altogether. It is very very rare, and that was an Npower occupant who had continually bypassed the meters constantly for years.They were drug users. A 6k reconnection and energy theft fee was levied.. The drug user and his family simply moved out leaving the landlord to stump up the reconnection bill.

phillw

victor2 wrote: »

so long as you DON'T switch away from whoever installed the meters, if they're SMETS1 standard - and you understandably confuse them and make them conclude they'll leave well alone.

SMETS1 is like Solar PV. The manufacturers made a load of money, some consumers have made some money & it's unclear whether you made the right decision either way to install them. The majority decision tends to be safest.

victor2 wrote: »

Although maybe they are still providing BG with details of my usage. Who knows?

My understanding is they are planning to directly "enroll" with DCC two thirds of the SMETS1 meters (based on the particular model fitted) & they haven't decided what to do about the rest (but replacing with a SMETS2 by the end of 2020 is one suggestion).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/783149/enrolment-secure-smets1-meters-in-dcc.pdf

Consultation on that ends in April, so we may have a clearer idea then.

If you are enrolled with DCC then only your current supplier should be receiving your usage.

What I'm more worried about is that because I only ever use the cheapest energy providers and they don't fit smart meters, should I switch to someone who does fit them? Could it be like Solar PV where the early adopters are better off and maybe in the future they'll charge money to fit a smart meter.

I quite expect the smaller providers to plan to just fold before the end date of the rollout and whoever takes you on to say the offer has ended.

victor2

phillw wrote: »

...
My understanding is they are planning to directly "enroll" with DCC two thirds of the SMETS1 meters (based on the particular model fitted) & they haven't decided what to do about the rest (but replacing with a SMETS2 by the end of 2020 is one suggestion).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/783149/enrolment-secure-smets1-meters-in-dcc.pdf

Consultation on that ends in April, so we may have a clearer idea then.

If you are enrolled with DCC then only your current supplier should be receiving your usage.
...

Thanks for that. Interesting reading.
So, in this Nirvana, my defunct SMETS1 meter will automatically get enrolled with DCC, who will then notify my current supplier, who will then no longer require me to supply readings to get accurate billing. Won't hold my breath.