SAR refused!

Redx

the NEWBIES sticky thread (you have been there before) tells you how to check the first postal Notice To Keeper (NTK) , the first postal letter that says Parking Charge Notice (PCN) against POFA 2012 (the law)


the clue is in the initials I capitalised above


check it for timescales and wording as well


there are 2 timescales depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued (or not)

Coupon-mad

Robbishon wrote: »

I really wasn’t being pedantic as stated before I’m lost with what all of this means/significance. I just wanted to answer the questions as throughly as I could.

I don’t know if it complies with POFA.

I will go away and do some more research now.

It's the PCN, not the Reminder, that MUST comply with para 9 of Schedule 4.

Show us a picture of both sides of it too, if you are struggling.

Remember that your WS must include your evidence, like photos of the signs, and don't forget to mention this in your WS story, as I pointed out much earlier:

The sign is clear enough, but interestingly, there's nothing about:

''failure to pay for full time on site'' or
''you will be charged for total stay, so do not rely on the times on your ticket'', or
''we are using ANPR and this is how your data is being used and for what purpose'' (contrary to the Information commissioner's Surveillance Camera Code of Practice that all parking firms have to sign up to and follow).

So it's important that you've said, despite using the car park often:
Quote:

(I didn’t even know it was an ANPR operated car park).

So their signs fail on that basis, and cause the listed t&cs giving rise to a £100 charge do not include overstay allegations, and even if the Judge thinks it's implied by the tariff/hourly rate list, that's only about parking time and doesn't tell you at all about ANPR and that your timing is from hidden cameras, not from the PDT.

You can also put in evidence with your WS, the IPC Code of Practice about grace periods, and (even though he's BPA) Kelvin Reynolds' words about grace period and observation periods (before an dafter paid-for time) being different timings which can EACH be over 10 minute periods, depending upon circumstances:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

(don't read or click on the feature blue banner ad, nowt to do with it!).

Finally, did you admit to being the driver in any appeal? Things like 'I didn’t even know it was an ANPR operated car park' or 'I paid and displayed'? Just checking your position so far so that you are consistent in the WS.

Robbishon

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/Robbishon/library/

Photos of the pcn ...hopefully!

KeithP

Your full name is still visible on that PCN, as is the PCN number.

Both of which uniquely identify you and your parking incident.

Robbishon

Thank you also for the info above.

I have admitted to being the driver, naively, I have emailed them and offered to pay for the overstay amount. Although I never made a formal appeal as by the time I realised what was happening the defence had to be submitted sharpish. So when I requested the SAR I had asked them to tell me what the times were “that you alledged I overstayed” (to that effect).

Coupon-mad

OK so there's no point us checking the PCN for POFA words about keeper liability!

Never mind, maybe more than half our Defendants have already blabbed about being the driver and it makes for a more honest stance for you at the hearing as you can speak freely and not try to rely on loopholes in keeper liability law.

Much of what I said to include in post #43 still applies. Just not the NTK/POFA stuff!

How long are they saying you overstayed, and remind me, did you pay and display for a number of hours as well, or just briefly stayed with no PDT paid for?

What overstay minutes are alleged either side of paid for time (if you paid & stayed)?

When do you have to get your WS in by?

Robbishon

https://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh495/Robbishon/38C22ABD-4DA4-4030-95C5-E909BC5BF5FB_zpslmjktic6.jpeg

https://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh495/Robbishon/C463121D-6569-46E0-A101-7F1A5B485652_zpseelv5djf.jpeg

2nd attempt...

It was 25 minutes overstay.

The car park has a PDT where I enter my vrn then a ticket comes out and you are instructed to display it in the windscreen. When the incident happened I had returned to working from the office behind this car park after not being there for some time. Last I used to work at car park it was a council run car park so tickets were issued by an attendant, hence I thought it still was a council car park and would have gotten a ticket on my screen.

WS should be in by 10th June...that date gives me Idiot time too.

What I am getting out of this is that Dvla had given my info prematurely as the V888 states that if a parking company is chasing up a pcn then they must wait 29 days or the Dvla will not process the request.......but they did process it in seven days.

Robbishon

Sorry...yes I did pay and display as well.

Coupon-mad

Robbishon wrote: »

What I am getting out of this is that Dvla had given my info prematurely as the V888 states that if a parking company is chasing up a pcn then they must wait 29 days or the Dvla will not process the request.......but they did process it in seven days.

No, not where there has been no windscreen PCN.

Read para 9 of the POFA, linked in the NEWBIES thread.

Robbishon

Good morning all.

I have prepared my first draft witness statement. Please note that I have not used case law as I don’t feel confident to and want to avoid getting caught up in the legal jargon. I’ve tried to keep it simple and stick to the facts. I am not sure I should include my point in paragraph 6 as I really can’t remember if I did move the car or not. I know this is something I have done in the past but couldn’t be certain I did it on that day. Anyway I’m sure you will all tell me what you think!


Witness statement.

1 The defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. The claim relates to an alleged debt in damages arising from an alleged breach of contract whilst using Lottie Road Car Park on 12/10/2018. Any breach is denied, and it is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimants £100 Parking Charge Notice. The Claimant has sent a pack of documents that it says it will rely on as evidence. One of the documents is a print out of the sign, that manor parking states was displayed on the day, forms the contract. The sign is mostly a wall of small font text, from which a driver in a vehicle cannot understand and therefore cannot be deemed to have accepted the terms.

2 There is nothing in the signs that indicates a charge will arise for failure to pay for full time on site or being charged for total stay so as not to rely on ticket times.

3 The Claimants original PCN was issued on 23th October 2018. The POFA Paragraph 8(2)(f) requires that any notice to keeper gives 28 days from the day after the day the notice was given for full payment or the details of the driver. The repeat PCN was issued on 20th November, which is non-compliant with POFA conditions.

4 The Claimants defence pack does not include any ‘letter before Claim’. Nor is it contained in the subject data access request that I received via email on 30th Jan 2019. Therefore, the defendant asserts that Manor parking have not complied with pre- action protocol for debt claims and have issued a premature claim.


5 The allegation appears to be based on images by their ANPR camera at the entrance and exit to the site. This is merely an image of the vehicle in transit, entering a leaving the car park in question and if not evidence of the registered keeper ‘not purchasing the appropriate time for the duration of his stay’.

6 The defendant is an employee of the National Probation Service. (EX 1LR – Identification badge). Due to the passage of time since this alleged contravention it is possible that I could have moved my car onto the probation car park that can only be accessed via the entrance to the Lottie Road Car park. Therefore, the image of the vehicle leaving the car park at 12.09 on 10/12/2018 may be just that, and does not prove that I was parked on the car park for the whole 2 hours 27mins and 24 seconds.

7 The defendant was under the impression, that the car park was enforced by way of traffic warden and therefore any breach would be dealt with by way of a notice being stuck to the vehicle window. Any letters sent to my address would have been disregarded as junk mail.


I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.