Smart Meters mandatory on new fixed term deals

[Deleted User]

Takmon wrote: »

No like i said above smart meters are not about saving money. There are two main reasons they want people to have one:

1) Having a smart meter in everyone's home will mean we have a smart electricity grid and will allow the supply and demand to be better regulated making it more efficient.

Please explain in some detail how that will work. Bearing in mind that the National Grids for Lec and Gas already know exactly how much electricity and gas is being used at every given moment. And have years of historical data to predict usage patterns.

Takmon wrote: »

2) Energy suppliers will be not need to send meter readings or request readings from customers so this will save them a lot of hassle in disputed bills and miss payments when people build up large debts by underpaying and not realising.

Please exaplain why you think there will be less hassle over disputed bills, when you've already stated in this thread, that the meter may well not be 'smart' after 1 year.
Because after this period of 1 year, you appear to be suggesting that the previously 'smart' meter is now a 'dumb' meter, and may need to be 'manually' read.

Presumably by the same group of people you've already stated didn't need to read the meter in the first place, because it was 'smart'?

EnergyRookie

DeletedUser wrote: »

Please explain in some detail how that will work. Bearing in mind that the National Grids for Lec and Gas already know exactly how much electricity and gas is being used at every given moment. And have years of historical data to predict usage patterns....

https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/smart-living/a-smarter-future-the-smart-grid-energy-revolution

Gerry1

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

Takmon wrote: »

No like i said above smart meters are not about saving money.

Wow - that's really let the cat out of the bag ! The official propaganda still says we'll make massive savings, mentioning 'about £240 per year'. Obviously we're still being misled; MPs reckon the saving is likely to be only £11 per year.

Takmon wrote: »

Having a smart meter in everyone's home will mean we have a smart electricity grid and will allow the supply and demand to be better regulated making it more efficient.

In plain English, that means you'll be nudged or forced to boil the kettle, cook, wash, tumble dry etc at times when it suits the industry, not you.

Takmon wrote: »

So it's frankly ridiculous that people think they want to use smart meters to cut people off and limit the amount of load at certain times

Evidence, please ! The Government doesn't agree with you: i[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]t's known as Demand Side Response. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If your claim is true, why have Load Limiting, and Load Shedding (Remote Disconnection) been specified? They've been used for years elsewhere.
[/FONT]

Takmon

DeletedUser wrote: »

Please explain in some detail how that will work. Bearing in mind that the National Grids for Lec and Gas already know exactly how much electricity and gas is being used at every given moment. And have years of historical data to predict usage patterns.

EnergyRookie has posted a link outlining this. There is plenty of information online of how this extra data from smart meters will help.

DeletedUser wrote: »

Please exaplain why you think there will be less hassle over disputed bills, when you've already stated in this thread, that the meter may well not be 'smart' after 1 year.
Because after this period of 1 year, you appear to be suggesting that the previously 'smart' meter is now a 'dumb' meter, and may need to be 'manually' read.

Presumably by the same group of people you've already stated didn't need to read the meter in the first place, because it was 'smart'?

Yes in the poster they said the meters won't function after a year and i corrected them in saying the meter would still work but would not be smart. I'm assuming they were talking about someone with a SMETS1 meter and switching suppliers.

But obviously that is not how they intend to function and when fully operational there will not be any more unexpected bills.

Gerry1 wrote: »

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Wow - that's really let the cat out of the bag ! The official propaganda still says we'll make massive savings, mentioning 'about £240 per year'. Obviously we're still being misled; MPs reckon the saving is likely to be only £11 per year.

Anyone with any common sense can see smart meters don't save money by just being there. They "savings" come from people who use the information to save energy. There are many people who don't have a clue how much things cost to run.
I've seen many threads on here where people are using too much electricity and might track it down to a water tank being constantly heating. If they had a IHD they would be able to instantly see increased usage and see the effect of turning things on and off.

Gerry1 wrote: »

In plain English, that means you'll be nudged or forced to boil the kettle, cook, wash, tumble dry etc at times when it suits the industry, not you.

We currently have E7 and E10 tariffs so i don't see a problem with tariffs that encourage usage patterns by cheaper rates at off peak times. There will always be the suppliers that offer variations of this so people can get a good deal, just like there is currently.

Gerry1 wrote: »

Evidence, please ! The Government doesn't agree with you: i[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]t's known as Demand Side Response. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If your claim is true, why have Load Limiting, and Load Shedding (Remote Disconnection) been specified? They've been used for years elsewhere.
[/FONT]

Yes the meters have those features and the link documents that fact. But it doesn't mean that it will be used and if it was going to be used smart meters would be made mandatory otherwise it won't be as effective. Plus energy companies would not want to willingly implement this and alienate customers.

So your example of it being used is a city that is known for frequent power outages for everyone (no matter what meter type). The smart meters in that case actually help because instead of having no power at all for periods they at least have limited power. In the UK we don't have power outages due to power generation issues so that comparison doesn't apply.

Gerry1

Takmon wrote: »

So your example of it being used is a city that is known for frequent power outages for everyone (no matter what meter type). The smart meters in that case actually help because instead of having no power at all for periods they at least have limited power. In the UK we don't have power outages due to power generation issues so that comparison doesn't apply.

Not yet.

But we will when old nuclear power stations are decommissioned and are not replaced.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/26/engineers-warn-of-looming-uk-energy-gap

Takmon

Gerry1 wrote: »

Not yet.

But we will when old nuclear power stations are decommissioned and are not replaced.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/26/engineers-warn-of-looming-uk-energy-gap

Ok let's say the problem doesn't get resolved and in the future their is not enough capacity. There will be two options:

1) Random blackouts of electricity across areas of the country without any idea of how long they will be or when

2) Controlled periods of lower consumption during certain periods via the use of smart meters so people at least have some power at all times.

I really can't see how the smart meters are the worst option in this situation because most people would prefer to have at least some power for lights, TV etc.

Gerry1

Takmon wrote: »

Ok let's say the problem doesn't get resolved and in the future their is not enough capacity. There will be two options:

1) Random blackouts of electricity across areas of the country without any idea of how long they will be or when

2) Controlled periods of lower consumption during certain periods via the use of smart meters so people at least have some power at all times.

I really can't see how the smart meters are the worst option in this situation because most people would prefer to have at least some power for lights, TV etc.

Yes, all true. But this has never been made clear, we've always been told we'll be able to save money using the new shiny toy, but load limiting, load shedding and expensive ToU tariffs have seldom if ever been publicised.

Takmon

Gerry1 wrote: »

Yes, all true. But this has never been made clear, we've always been told we'll be able to save money using the new shiny toy, but load limiting, load shedding and expensive ToU tariffs have seldom if ever been publicised.

Personally i think the entire thing has been mis-managed and people should have never been given the choice in the first place. People have never had a choice in the past when meters were changed from analog to digital so this is just the next advancement in meter technology. Plus when you consider the customer doesn't even own the meter then why even ask them.

I honestly think there are no current plans for load limiting or load shedding because currently supply does meet the demand without any blackouts, so nothing there to publicise.

Time of Use tariffs will probably happen but they can't publicise costs when they probably haven't even come up with any yet. But even if they did there will always be smaller companies coming in with new tariffs if customers are not happy with what the big 6 offer.

Gerry1

Takmon wrote: »

I honestly think there are no current plans for load limiting or load shedding because currently supply does meet the demand without any blackouts, so nothing there to publicise.

Straight out of 'Yes, Prime Minister' !

If the was never the remotest possibility of any of these features ever being implemented at any time in the future, why were they so carefully specified?

[Deleted User]

Lol Gerry, reading what some of these posters have to say, i kept thinking i was reading a script from 'Yes Minister' too!

Like when i asked for 'details' and i was given a link to a 'broad outline'.

Takmon, Give us a choice? About equipment installed in our own homes? What were they thinking! Madness! Sheer madness i tell you!