myparkingcharge.co.uk valid parking fine - any options?

Coupon-mad

Fosh wrote: »

LegalBeagles were helpful and that one has now been resolved.

I'm at the witness statement stage for the original reason for starting this thread and I have a question about NTD/NTH. The letter they sent me was a notice to driver, so I'm wondering if they've failed POFA for the 21 day time limit for a NTH and whether it's worth me including this for the Witness Statement please?

If this is a hire/company/lease car you certainly need to show the Judge (who may NEVER have looked at this part of the POFA) paras 13/14 in Schedule 4 and specifically the statutory requirements for transferring liability to a hirer/lessee, including the enclosures that VCS were required to put in the envelope, but didn't.

Please don't fixate on the 21 days (when presumably you do not know when that clock even started) when the lack of 'NTH' and zero enclosures are the thing to mention.

Fosh

Excellent, thank you. Will be spending plenty of time this weekend building the WS (with a hefty dose of C+P from some excellent ones here) and familiarising myself with the POFA.

Fosh

I've included the information above, but if they go for me as the driver is that part irrelevant in my defence?

Redx

For info

Pofa cannot apply if they can prove that you were the driver , or if you have admitted it

POFA protects a keeper , not a driver , but for hire or company vehicles they have to follow POFA on timescales , wording and hire docs to hold a Keeper liable

An admitted driver has no such protections

Fosh

I haven't admitted that I was the driver but if the judge asks me if I was the driver I'm not going to lie to him.

Redx

Fair enough , so decide if this is a better case to fight as an admitted driver and witness on the day , OR as a keeper hiding behind pofa and being evasive

Fosh

I had my day in court today. I barely slept a wink last night, not sure if it was related to today or not, but it was a rough start to the day.


I was at Grimsby Court, I arrived at 9:30 or so for a 10am hearing, and saw that there were 4 other VCS cases and got chatting to a lady who was one of the other VCS cases and it turned out was against the same VCS 'rep' as I was, a Mr Abodouffour (I've probably spelt that horrendously, apologies to the guy if he reads this). I also saw Mr Wilkes arrive, and having read about him several times on here I hoped I was up against him. A 3rd VCS 'rep' arrived and instantly agreed a deal with the 5th VCS case of £125 and done.



Whilst we waited for our rep, we spoke about our cases to each other, she hadn't visited this forum and she had formed her own defence. She found out the contract signed between the parking company and the landholder expired in 2016, and that landholder had sold the land in 2015. After the VCS chap finally rocked up at 10:25 he spoke to both of us, asking about costs we'd be requesting if he won. He then asked me where I had parked and where I was allowed to park. I told him that he should know this and after he pressed further I told him we'd discuss it in front of the judge.



She went in firstand she was out again in 2 minutes, before they'd even done introductions the judge had told him to find a valid contract within 5 minutes or the case would be dismissed. He disappeared for 10 minutes, came back and they went back in for another 5 minutes. She came out and told me she'd won and was awarded £94 in costs.


Then it was my turn, as the judge started talking I sort of rudely interrupted him, without intending to be rude, and asked if the VCS guy had 'Right of Audience'. He asked me why I was asking this, and I explained that as he isn't a solicitor or a VCS employee some judges have ruled that he doesn't have RoA and have struck cases out based on this. He asked the other gentleman for his input and then pressed me for the legal basis again and I had to admit I didn't know. He allowed the case to continue.


He then asked the VCS guy to present the case and he basically said it's the witness statement. Went through a few of the pages with us both and the judge queried a few things on it and it was over pretty quickly before the judge turned to me and asked me to present my case.


I started by pointing out inaccuracies in the Claimant's witness statement, starting with what I thought would probably be irrelevant - it was signed and dated 28/12/18. The first sentence of the WS said that the girl writing it had been employed at VCS since August 2019. The case was also brought in March 2019, as confirmed by the VCS rep. The judge made a big thing of this, and ripped into VCS and the rep for this, whilst pointing out he wasn't blaming the rep as he hadn't written it. He did this a lot during the case.


The next inconsistency was that 2 of the paragraphs were stating that I was liable as the registered keeper, whilst in the appendix it was shown that they'd sent an NTK to VWFS and so I wasn't the keeper. The judge said that PoFA only applies if they don't know the driver, and they do know the driver. I then said sure, but they haven't once mentioned in their WS that they are pursuing me as the driver. I also pointed out an inconsistency in their WS that the 'This is not a parking charge notice' whilst info from a SAR from the claimant says that a PCN was issued at the same time as they're saying they haven't sent one. The judge asked why this matters and I replied that it was another inconsistency. I'm not sure if there was a better legal argument for this.


I then pushed on the Abuse of Process point for the £160. I also printed out a judgment I saw on another thread in Wales, where a judge rips into VCS. He asked if he could keep it on file, I happily obliged. He then queried the rep on the £60 as it doesn't say anywhere on the signage about the £60. He pointed towards the indemnity part of the WS and when pushed further by the judge, said he agreed with him about it and would happily remove the £60 from the claim.


Finally, the issue of whether I was actually allowed to park in that spot came up. I said at no point has the claimant provided any proof that I wasn't allowed to park there. The signage says park in allocated bays only but there's no info anywhere that says where I'm allowed to park. The judge said that I clearly displayed a valid permit for that site, so I was clearly allowed to park in some bays, but there's no information on where I can and can't park.


This is the part that won it for me. The rest is a bit of a blur, he talked for a while and whilst he was doing it, the VCS guy wrote 'bank details?' on a piece of paper, knowing he'd lost and that I would be awarded costs.



The judge then asked me what costs I'd like to claim, I said £95 for loss of earnings and he instantly said 'you have been doing a lot of research' and smiled. After proving what I earn he allowed those costs and I also asked for £5 parking which were agreed by the VCS rep.


He then spoke to the VCS rep and told him to tell his client to buck their ideas up when it comes to witness statements, they're always full of errors and they're a shambles. The rep said that he tells them every time about it. Finally, he turned to me and said 'There's a lot of information on the internet about parking charges, I think you may have read too much of it. Not all of it is valid'. I didn't press him on this, as don't bite the hand that feeds etc. I suspect he meant the RoA point early on, but he may have meant some of my other ramblings. Then we left, me a very happy man.


I spoke to the rep outside the court as we left together. He said that he hates dealing with PCN's, he agreed with all the points I brought up and said he has bills to pay. We shook hands and parted ways. He was sound.


I also saw Mr Wilkes outside, not looking particularly happy. I have no idea if he won or lost in his 2 cases.



I've put hours and hours into this, and at times I wondered if I should just throw the towel in. The buzz I got as I walked back to my car showed me I shouldn't have. I think I would have won on the abuse of process point too, if I didn't win on the point I did. I also think I'd have probably won on the date not being correct on the WS.



Finally, a big thank you to the people on this forum who help people like me. I don't know how you manage to put so much time and effort in. I didn't post much on this thread asking for help because there's so much good stuff in other threads that you can find everything (even if it's daunting at first). I will shortly open a beer and will toast to all of you good people here. I couldn't have done it without you.

Le_Kirk

Well done and a nice court report too.

Coupon-mad

The buzz I got as I walked back to my car showed me I shouldn't have.

It is great, isn't it? Love it.

I think I would have won on the abuse of process point too, if I didn't win on the point I did. I also think I'd have probably won on the date not being correct on the WS.

I agree, sounds like you would have won on several points.

Well done for winning & getting your costs. ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

:T

Fosh

It is great, isn't it?

It really is, a proper adrenaline rush that lasted a good few hours.