Restaurant demanding money not owed

shaun_from_Africa

billy2shots wrote: »

Ummm, no one think about a service charge?

Obviously we are not talking about £250 but 10/15% is perfectly normal for large groups.

10 to 15% would be a reasonable service charge to leave providing that the service provided actually warranted leaving anything which in the case in hand doesn't appear to be the case.

Pikupiku wrote: »

Booked for 7-9. The food didn’t arrive till 9. Service awful… starters and mains all together, half hour or more between first and last person getting food. Totally disorganised.

If I received service similar to that, I wouldn't leave 5%, let alone 10 or 15%

billy2shots

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

10 to 15% would be a reasonable service charge to leave providing that the service provided actually warranted leaving anything which in the case in hand doesn't appear to be the case.


If I received service similar to that, I wouldn't leave 5%, let alone 10 or 15%

Unfortunately a service charge is often mandatory for large groups and not optional.
This is different to a 'tip'.

shaun_from_Africa

billy2shots wrote: »

Unfortunately a service charge is often mandatory for large groups and not optional.
This is different to a 'tip'.

For a service payment to be legally owed, the service provided must have been to a reasonable standard.
Even if a service charge is stated on the menu or other notice before food is ordered, a customer can still decline to pay some or all of this charge if they feel that the service provided wasn't good enough.
Equally, they can decline to pay for food supplied and provided that they give proper contact details to the restaurant staff, they can leave. The restaurant owner or manager can then try to recover the money through civil action.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-pay-a-service-charge-if-the-service-is-poor

Compulsory service charge

Do I have to pay service charge?
If you are told about a compulsory service charge, you must pay it, unless the service was particularly poor.

If you don't get an acceptable level of service, the restaurant could be in breach of contract. Under the Consumer Rights Act it is legally required to use reasonable care and skill when providing its service.

If the restaurant falls below this standard you can refuse to pay some or all of a service charge, depending on how bad the service actually is.

billy2shots

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

For a service payment to be legally owed, the service provided must have been to a reasonable standard.
Even if a service charge is stated on the menu or other notice before food is ordered, a customer can still decline to pay some or all of this charge if they feel that the service provided wasn't good enough.
Equally, they can decline to pay for food supplied and provided that they give proper contact details to the restaurant staff, they can leave. The restaurant owner or manager can then try to recover the money through civil action.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-pay-a-service-charge-if-the-service-is-poor

I have read the OP again and it doesn't state the service charge was refused. Therefore I can only assume it was part of the bill. The OP states people paid for what the ate and has given examples, meaning nobody paid the service charge.

sheramber

Getting a detailed bill would clarify what exactly is being charged.

mksysb

billy2shots wrote: »

Ummm, no one think about a service charge?

Obviously we are not talking about £250 but 10/15% is perfectly normal for large groups.
Nobody ever factors that in and just pays for what they eat leaving a someone to pick up the whole charge.

Large groups always cause issue, some people will try and underpay, some will order drinks at the bar but put it on the table bill, most won't factor in a service charge. Some will even try and pay nothing claiming to 'already chipped in my money '.

That's probably what the extra £60 was for if everyone just paid the cost of their meal.

Mr.Generous

Although I suspect some money is owed I have had a couple of instances when out having a family meal where our bill has been incorrectly massively inflated.

On one occasion at a Japanese place where you all sit round a big table they cook on they tried to charge us for everyone, 10 people when there were 6 of us. They then knocked off the other 4's food but not drinks, they then knocked off the other peoples drinks too, but added a couple more plus a bottle of wine we didn't have to our bill. One of the drinks I had actually ordered about half an hour before but still not had.


By this point I'd absolutely had enough and we just worked out and put down the exact money minus any tip or service payment, and I spoke to the manager and told him the food was excellent, the service poor (kept waiting for an hour for a pre booked table) and they really need to sort out their billing. He blamed staff being new and messing it up.

Second occasion was where an item ordered was not available but left on the bill and a mysterious item nobody (inc waiter) knew what it was. Knocked off bill and sorted. I do check restaurant bills quite carefully, they are often wrong.


OP I suggest you look at menu and work out exactly what everyone had and what it cost and compare it to a detailed bill that manager will provide. Be adamant that until this is done you won't be going near the place.

Jumblebumble

billy2shots wrote: »

Ummm, no one think about a service charge?

Obviously we are not talking about £250 but 10/15% is perfectly normal for large groups.
Nobody ever factors that in and just pays for what they eat leaving a someone to pick up the whole charge.

Large groups always cause issue, some people will try and underpay, some will order drinks at the bar but put it on the table bill, most won't factor in a service charge. Some will even try and pay nothing claiming to 'already chipped in my money '.

You must be in big groups that heve partipicants that have no respect
I am a member of a different forum who meet regularly for a meal with up to 20 Partipicants
We all pay our own way and never have any shortfall
One person takes ownership of the money and no one pays direct unless the restaurant works like Vapiano who give a card to each person who charges it and pays on the way out

The restaurant owner must either make a service charge mandatory or should put up or shut up
They are getting a lot of business and if their restaurant is not busy still making a good profit.

billy2shots

Whilst it sounds like the restaurant wasn't running the smoothest of operations I think the OP and friends need to take some responsibility.

A large group of 20 odd people wandering off in dribs and drabs to pay small chunks off the bill for an amount they had calculated (no paying of service charge if applicable) is ridiculous.

At the very least everyone should remain at the table to sort it out.

Anyone with any experience of this knows the simplest way to handle the situation is by someone taking responsibility and checking the bill against what was ordered and delivered. Once happy the total bill (including service charge) should be split equally amongst the number of guests.

However, this is MSE and there are plenty of people out there that will complain that their starter was £1 less than the guy at the other end of the table so why should they pay 1/20th of his garlic bread. That 5p can lead to big problems, believe me.
If this sums up you and your friendship group then you have now complicated things slightly.
What you need to do now is go around the table and find out exactly what everyone had and work their bill out accordingly. Do this for every individual or couple (depending on if they will pay together). After this, split the service charge EQUALLY between the number of guests and add that to their personal bill.

Next step.
Cash is collected by designated person making sure everyone pays their share. This total is put in the middle of the table. The waiter can be called and those wishing to pay by card can start paying their chunk off of the MAIN BILL not individual mini bills. The cash should cover the rest.

With the group splintering off into secret pay parties the restaurant never stood a chance. They should of had a grand total counting down every time some payment ninja made a contribution for an amount decided by themselves and it appears the total never reached zero.
A better run establishment may have done things better but I think you guys are equally to blame for any misunderstanding.

2 things to think about in future.

1. Avoid big group meals unless everyone Pre pays cash into a kitty at the start. (Any Change shared out at the end).

2. Get new friends if people are too tight to split the bill equally.

Jumblebumble

billy2shots wrote: »

2. Get new friends if people are too tight to split the bill equally.

Would you suggest this for our forum meals where there are up to 20 of us but we are not friends ?