Symbio Energy feedback

unclerussty

My experience with Symbio is very poor.  Like most people I’ve had overestimated bills. No response to emails, and can no longer access my account on their website or app.  Had a smart meter installed by them at beginning of July, but they ignored this showing I’d used around £120 worth of electricity in July, and then sent August’s bill with no meter readings on it and charging £372 for Aug.

Decided this week to switch to another provider and get a response from them saying that they are objecting to the switch until I pay £372 for August’s bill.  I’ve looked back over meter readings from when I switched to them in March this year to the end of July, and by my calculations I’ve overpaid by £400! Waiting for a response but not expecting one anytime soon, poised to go to OFGEM & small claims court if necessary.

Gerry1

unclerussty said:

poised to go to OFGEM & small claims court if necessary.

Welcome to the forum.  You'd need to go to the Ombudsman, not Ofgem.

niktheguru

unclerussty said:

My experience with Symbio is very poor.  Like most people I’ve had overestimated bills. No response to emails, and can no longer access my account on their website or app.  Had a smart meter installed by them at beginning of July, but they ignored this showing I’d used around £120 worth of electricity in July, and then sent August’s bill with no meter readings on it and charging £372 for Aug.

Decided this week to switch to another provider and get a response from them saying that they are objecting to the switch until I pay £372 for August’s bill.  I’ve looked back over meter readings from when I switched to them in March this year to the end of July, and by my calculations I’ve overpaid by £400! Waiting for a response but not expecting one anytime soon, poised to go to OFGEM & small claims court if necessary.

I would suggest calling them and explaining the situation. Clearly state how many units of energy you’ve used, how much that costs by your calculations and how much you’ve already paid by direct debit. If your account is genuinely in credit you must politely insist they unblock your switch and don’t pay them any more.

if you are averse to calling (which is usually the quickest route) then email their quality assurance team. This email address is on your bills. Good luck.

PennineAcute

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

greenguppie

PennineAcute said:

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

This sounds more of a general smart metering issue, rather than a specific energy supplier issue.

Which supplier originally arranged the installation of your smart meters, and when were they installed?

I admit I don't understand much about smart meters, and so apologies if I say anything here if it is wrong (if anyone has better knowledge, please feel free to correct me). But at least it means my basic comprehension means I can only give very basic explanation.

As I understand it, your energy supplier is responsible for arranging the installation of the electric, and where a supply exists, a gas smart meter.
It does not matter that you buy your gas from a different supplier to your electricity, if you have both gas and electricity supplied to the property, then whichever supplier is arranging the installation, they must cater for both meters.

I think this is because the gas smart meter sends the information only to the electricity smart meter, and the electricity meter is the 'master' smart meter that then sends the information out to wherever the supplier can obtain it from.

SMETS1 refers to the first generation of smart meters.
I understood the main shortcoming of this meter is that it often only allowed access to the data it transmitted to the supplier that arranged it's installation.
If you switched supplier, the meter effectively then only operated as a dumb meter, and you would need to provide manual readings to your supplier

SMETS2 refers to the second generation of smart meters that allows access to the data by any supplier, so switching supplier is not an issue.
(some suppliers, particularly the smaller ones, are still getting the technology installed to allow them access to retrieve the data, but all suppliers are now subscribed to the service. small steps ...)

It was hoped that most SMETS1 meters could be updated via an over-the- air update, that would then allow all suppliers to access the data they transmit.
I'm not sure how successful that has been, and in any event, there were always going to be some SMETS1 that were incapable of being updated, and so the only other alternative would be to replace them with SMETS2 meters (or allow then to continue as dumb meters if you ever changed supplier)

In your case, you have electricity currently supplied by an electricity only supplier, and gas currently supplied by a gas only supplier.
Therefore, at least one of those suppliers was not the original installing supplier, and I strongly suspect nether were.

So I was wondering how either were able to currently access your SMETS1  data remotely, unless the meters have already been updated via the OTA update?

What update are Symbio offering you? Presumably to update both gas and electric to SMETS2 meters? In that case, there should be no reason that Zog (your gas supplier) would not then be able to access your gas meter data, especially if they can already access the data supplied by your SMETS1 meter (assuming as I suspect they did not originally install it).

If Symbio replace your SMETS1 meters with SMETS2 meters, then they should also supply a new IHD (or use the existing one) and ensure both gas & electric data is displayed on that IHD.
It may take a short while (hours or a couple of days at the most) for Zog energy to send your correct gas tariff data so that if reflects the correct cost on the IHD.

I heard most people have turned off their IHD anyway, and saved the electric that it consumes. I was told it was an interesting novelty when first intsalled, but that the novelty soon wore off for most.

Anyway, in your situation, even on the worst case scenario, I think I would allow Symbio to carry out the update.
Worst case is that things don't go smoothly and you are left with only an smart electric meter as you fear.
But at least Symbio will then receive actual meter readings, without you having to remember to provide them manually. I understand that if Symbio do not receive an actual meter reading, they estimate a massively inflated one.

At least with Zog energy, if you fail to provide a meter reading one month, their estimates will be proportionate to what they believe your annual consumption is and in accordance with previous readings you have prtovided them with ... just like 99.999% of all supplers manage to do. Just not Symbio Energy.

Best case scenario is that Symbio will be installing SMETS2 meters, and both suppliers get access to their required data, meaning no more manual meter reading submissions required to either supplier.


Edit (14/08/2021): - please see my correction to this post later in this thread

PennineAcute

greenguppie said:

PennineAcute said:

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

This sounds more of a general smart metering issue, rather than a specific energy supplier issue.

Which supplier originally arranged the installation of your smart meters, and when were they installed?

I admit I don't understand much about smart meters, and so apologies if I say anything here if it is wrong (if anyone has better knowledge, please feel free to correct me). But at least it means my basic comprehension means I can only give very basic explanation.

As I understand it, your energy supplier is responsible for arranging the installation of the electric, and where a supply exists, a gas smart meter.
It does not matter that you buy your gas from a different supplier to your electricity, if you have both gas and electricity supplied to the property, then whichever supplier is arranging the installation, they must cater for both meters.

I think this is because the gas smart meter sends the information only to the electricity smart meter, and the electricity meter is the 'master' smart meter that then sends the information out to wherever the supplier can obtain it from.

SMETS1 refers to the first generation of smart meters.
I understood the main shortcoming of this meter is that it often only allowed access to the data it transmitted to the supplier that arranged it's installation.
If you switched supplier, the meter effectively then only operated as a dumb meter, and you would need to provide manual readings to your supplier

SMETS2 refers to the second generation of smart meters that allows access to the data by any supplier, so switching supplier is not an issue.
(some suppliers, particularly the smaller ones, are still getting the technology installed to allow them access to retrieve the data, but all suppliers are now subscribed to the service. small steps ...)

It was hoped that most SMETS1 meters could be updated via an over-the- air update, that would then allow all suppliers to access the data they transmit.
I'm not sure how successful that has been, and in any event, there were always going to be some SMETS1 that were incapable of being updated, and so the only other alternative would be to replace them with SMETS2 meters (or allow then to continue as dumb meters if you ever changed supplier)

In your case, you have electricity currently supplied by an electricity only supplier, and gas currently supplied by a gas only supplier.
Therefore, at least one of those suppliers was not the original installing supplier, and I strongly suspect nether were.

So I was wondering how either were able to currently access your SMETS1  data remotely, unless the meters have already been updated via the OTA update?

What update are Symbio offering you? Presumably to update both gas and electric to SMETS2 meters? In that case, there should be no reason that Zog (your gas supplier) would not then be able to access your gas meter data, especially if they can already access the data supplied by your SMETS1 meter (assuming as I suspect they did not originally install it).

If Symbio replace your SMETS1 meters with SMETS2 meters, then they should also supply a new IHD (or use the existing one) and ensure both gas & electric data is displayed on that IHD.
It may take a short while (hours or a couple of days at the most) for Zog energy to send your correct gas tariff data so that if reflects the correct cost on the IHD.

I heard most people have turned off their IHD anyway, and saved the electric that it consumes. I was told it was an interesting novelty when first intsalled, but that the novelty soon wore off for most.

Anyway, in your situation, even on the worst case scenario, I think I would allow Symbio to carry out the update.
Worst case is that things don't go smoothly and you are left with only an smart electric meter as you fear.
But at least Symbio will then receive actual meter readings, without you having to remember to provide them manually. I understand that if Symbio do not receive an actual meter reading, they estimate a massively inflated one.

At least with Zog energy, if you fail to provide a meter reading one month, their estimates will be proportionate to what they believe your annual consumption is and in accordance with previous readings you have prtovided them with ... just like 99.999% of all supplers manage to do. Just not Symbio Energy.

Best case scenario is that Symbio will be installing SMETS2 meters, and both suppliers get access to their required data, meaning no more manual meter reading submissions required to either supplier.

My meters were installed by Scottish Power in 2017, when I had their dual fuel.

I have used my IHD from day 1, as I use this info to update my spreadsheet.  I know that the gas kWH is not 100% accurate, but it gives me a good estimate of my daily, and therefore my annual usage.Each month I enter my billed usage, and this then recifies any gas kWh difference.

Symbio told me they would not touch my gas meter, only swap my electricity meter to a SMET2.  As the gas meter sends its info to the electricity meter, then if the new setup prevented this, then Zog would be unable to read my meter.

ZOG have told me that they have remotely updated my SMET1 meter so it can be read manually.   Therefore, using some logic, Smybio should be able to do the same on their side.  SYmbio said they could, but it would cost them.  Obviously, it is cheaper to install a new meter than to perform this update.

My spreadsheet has been written to use my IHD readings for both gas and elec.  It does a good job of estimating my annual usage and keeping track of my required DD.  This is one reason why I do not want to lose my IHD gas readings. 

It seems to me that the best outcome for me would to find a cheap dual provider - let them sort out either the upgrade or install new SMET 2 meters, and then I would be certain that I could continue keeping track of my usage the way that works for me.

greenguppie

PennineAcute said:

greenguppie said:

PennineAcute said:

So, today I have had a phone call from Symbio asking if I wanted to upgrade my SMET1 meter.

As things stand at the moment, ZOG can read my SMET1 gas meter, so I asked if this upgrade would prevent ZOG from auto reading my meter.  He said that he did not know - so I am assuming the answer is yes.  This would then also prevent me from seeing my gas usage on my IHD, which I use for my spreadsheet.

I then asked if ZOG could read my SMET1 meter, then why could Symbio not read my electricity meter.  I was told that this upgrade would have to go through a third party, which would cost Symbio.

I declined their offer of an upgrade on the basis that I would in fact make me worse off than I am now. 

1) Instead of having to give Symbio a meter reading, I would have to give ZOG a meter reading - so problem not solved
2) I would not be able to see my gas usage on my IHD.

This sounds more of a general smart metering issue, rather than a specific energy supplier issue.

Which supplier originally arranged the installation of your smart meters, and when were they installed?

I admit I don't understand much about smart meters, and so apologies if I say anything here if it is wrong (if anyone has better knowledge, please feel free to correct me). But at least it means my basic comprehension means I can only give very basic explanation.

As I understand it, your energy supplier is responsible for arranging the installation of the electric, and where a supply exists, a gas smart meter.
It does not matter that you buy your gas from a different supplier to your electricity, if you have both gas and electricity supplied to the property, then whichever supplier is arranging the installation, they must cater for both meters.

I think this is because the gas smart meter sends the information only to the electricity smart meter, and the electricity meter is the 'master' smart meter that then sends the information out to wherever the supplier can obtain it from.

SMETS1 refers to the first generation of smart meters.
I understood the main shortcoming of this meter is that it often only allowed access to the data it transmitted to the supplier that arranged it's installation.
If you switched supplier, the meter effectively then only operated as a dumb meter, and you would need to provide manual readings to your supplier

SMETS2 refers to the second generation of smart meters that allows access to the data by any supplier, so switching supplier is not an issue.
(some suppliers, particularly the smaller ones, are still getting the technology installed to allow them access to retrieve the data, but all suppliers are now subscribed to the service. small steps ...)

It was hoped that most SMETS1 meters could be updated via an over-the- air update, that would then allow all suppliers to access the data they transmit.
I'm not sure how successful that has been, and in any event, there were always going to be some SMETS1 that were incapable of being updated, and so the only other alternative would be to replace them with SMETS2 meters (or allow then to continue as dumb meters if you ever changed supplier)

In your case, you have electricity currently supplied by an electricity only supplier, and gas currently supplied by a gas only supplier.
Therefore, at least one of those suppliers was not the original installing supplier, and I strongly suspect nether were.

So I was wondering how either were able to currently access your SMETS1  data remotely, unless the meters have already been updated via the OTA update?

What update are Symbio offering you? Presumably to update both gas and electric to SMETS2 meters? In that case, there should be no reason that Zog (your gas supplier) would not then be able to access your gas meter data, especially if they can already access the data supplied by your SMETS1 meter (assuming as I suspect they did not originally install it).

If Symbio replace your SMETS1 meters with SMETS2 meters, then they should also supply a new IHD (or use the existing one) and ensure both gas & electric data is displayed on that IHD.
It may take a short while (hours or a couple of days at the most) for Zog energy to send your correct gas tariff data so that if reflects the correct cost on the IHD.

I heard most people have turned off their IHD anyway, and saved the electric that it consumes. I was told it was an interesting novelty when first intsalled, but that the novelty soon wore off for most.

Anyway, in your situation, even on the worst case scenario, I think I would allow Symbio to carry out the update.
Worst case is that things don't go smoothly and you are left with only an smart electric meter as you fear.
But at least Symbio will then receive actual meter readings, without you having to remember to provide them manually. I understand that if Symbio do not receive an actual meter reading, they estimate a massively inflated one.

At least with Zog energy, if you fail to provide a meter reading one month, their estimates will be proportionate to what they believe your annual consumption is and in accordance with previous readings you have prtovided them with ... just like 99.999% of all supplers manage to do. Just not Symbio Energy.

Best case scenario is that Symbio will be installing SMETS2 meters, and both suppliers get access to their required data, meaning no more manual meter reading submissions required to either supplier.

My meters were installed by Scottish Power in 2017, when I had their dual fuel.

I have used my IHD from day 1, as I use this info to update my spreadsheet.  I know that the gas kWH is not 100% accurate, but it gives me a good estimate of my daily, and therefore my annual usage.Each month I enter my billed usage, and this then recifies any gas kWh difference.

Symbio told me they would not touch my gas meter, only swap my electricity meter to a SMET2.  As the gas meter sends its info to the electricity meter, then if the new setup prevented this, then Zog would be unable to read my meter.

ZOG have told me that they have remotely updated my SMET1 meter so it can be read manually.   Therefore, using some logic, Smybio should be able to do the same on their side.  SYmbio said they could, but it would cost them.  Obviously, it is cheaper to install a new meter than to perform this update.

My spreadsheet has been written to use my IHD readings for both gas and elec.  It does a good job of estimating my annual usage and keeping track of my required DD.  This is one reason why I do not want to lose my IHD gas readings. 

It seems to me that the best outcome for me would to find a cheap dual provider - let them sort out either the upgrade or install new SMET 2 meters, and then I would be certain that I could continue keeping track of my usage the way that works for me.

If Symbio are saying they will only cater for upgrading your electricity smart meter, then I agree with you that you should tell them they are not welcome.
You may wish to start a formal complaint about that with them

Again, I remind you I don't fully understand smart metering (so I would welcome any correction from anyone that knows better), but as I understand it, if Zog (who only supply gas) have told you they updated your SMETS1 gas smart meter over the air, then they probably have updated the electricity one too despite not telling you that.
That's because I understand it's the electricity one that is the 'master' when it comes to sending (and so presumably receiving) any data.
i.e. if the electricity meter can send the gas data so that it is accessible to any gas supplier, then presumably it can now also send the electricity data that is similarly accessible to any electricity supplier
(obviously only your appointed supplier/s are granted access, but if you change supplier, the new supplier will get the access)

Therefore any supplier should now be able to access your data (for the energy they supply) remotely if they have the required technology at their end.

On the downside, as your SMETS1 meters have been successfully updated over the air, I doubt any supplier will arrange for them to be upgraded to SMETS2 free of charge. (and you'll probably be placed at the back of the queue as it would be classed as a non-essential meter change).

But I would certainly be hesitant to allow any supplier to only upgrade 1 meter when you have 2. That does sound like a receipe for disaster.


Edit (14/08/2021): - please see my correction to this post later in this thread

niktheguru

Completely agree with what you've done. Don't let symbio upgrade your smart meter. It wont really affect your symbio billing anyway.
Its always better to change both meters together, or at least the electric meter first. However if you have smets1 meters, you're right in thinking if you upgrade the electric to smets2 you will likely lose the smart function of the smets1. Not worth it.

jbuchanangb

Had the same offer from Symbio today and declined it.

My meters were installed by Scottish Power in 2017, when I had their dual fuel.

I have used my IHD from day 1, as I use this info to update my spreadsheet.  I know that the gas kWH is not 100% accurate, but it gives me a good estimate of my daily, and therefore my annual usage.Each month I enter my billed usage, and this then recifies any gas kWh difference.

My situation entirely the same. My gas is now with SSE who claim to be able to access the smart gas meter. In my conversation with Symbio we agreed that if they replaced the electricity SMETS1 meter with an electricity SMETS2 meter, the connection used by SSE to access the gas meter would be lost.

shinytop

Just given my switch meter reading to Neon Reef and according to my calculations Symbio owe me £322.  This is despite me cancelling the final dd of £167 they asked for.  That's nearly 20% of my annual usage (as well as paying in advance).   Let's see how long it takes them to pay.